# Does anything ever go wrong with a Mac? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 4, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498 "2011-03-04T17:50:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498/81 "2011-03-09T22:16:41Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > …but it’s like telling a grieving mother than she can just get pregnant again to replace a dead child. No, it really isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498/82 "2011-03-10T01:00:59Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > This is specifically what I’m curious about. It seems needing to reinstall OSX is unheard of, true? Windows OS builds up cruft over time, robbing disk space and slowing performance, and often dies completely (I never order a PC without a reinstall disk). Windows does no such thing. The other shit people install does that. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498/83 "2011-03-10T01:15:56Z")
As others have said, hardware fails, whether it’s made by Apple or anyone else. Software, though, my software on my Mac fails far, far less frequently. I’ve had to force quit an application maybe a half dozen times in the last year with my Mac Mini (and four of those were Firefox choking on Flash games). I had a system wide lockup once. It isn’t just stability. It’s ease of use, too. I used Windows exclusively (count me in the crowd that bashed Macs and their “logo tax”) for a decade. Even up to the very end it was frustratingly difficult to make simple things work, like getting a printer to print (or the network fiascos that are the stuff of legend). My Mac Mini found my printer and printed a test page within eight seconds of loading the OS the first time… my girlfriend’s Windows machine still can’t find the same printer more than once and disappears after the first printing. Just now I had to print for her because she still can’t find the thing. It’s a tradeoff, like anything. Macs aren’t any _better_, they’re just easier and more headache-free. You pay for that with a lot less customizability and easily-accessed advanced function. I decided I was really tired of my Windows machine crashing every week, and using Ctrl+Alt+Del so much the keyboard had worn the letters down, that I gave up that advanced function and got something I don’t have to worry about. Everything I’ve ever wanted to do, I did within seconds, without a headache. Up to you if that’s “better.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498/84 "2011-03-10T02:16:59Z")
> [@](#): > > You pay for that with a lot less customizability and easily-accessed advanced function. This depends on what you mean by customizability and easily-accessed advanced function: The _presence_ of those, just a terminal window away, is what sold me on OSX. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498/85 "2011-03-10T02:53:39Z")
I’m not feeling particularly charitable about Apple at the moment. I have a flaky Mac Mini on my bench. Changing the memory is a procedure that has to be seen to be believed involving a putty knife, tiny screwdriver, needle-nose pliers and a lot os patience. The same thing with a PC can often be done with no tools at all. When they fail, they leave a crater. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498/86 "2011-03-10T02:54:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > This depends on what you mean by customizability and easily-accessed advanced function: The _presence_ of those, just a terminal window away, is what sold me on OSX. Just out of interest, what percentage of Mac users do you think make regular use of the terminal? Is it greater than one half of one percent? ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498/87 "2011-03-10T03:30:39Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > To the best of my recollection, I’ve never seen a Mac app install _anything_ in my Documents folder, aside from _maybe_ a subfolder put there simply as a dedicated folder to save the documents I create with that app. I don’t think I’ve ever seen config files placed in the Documents folder. And now I have to amend this. I double-checked my Documents folder, and discovered there actually _are_ some config/preference files in there, from three sources. Interestingly two of those sources happen to be Microsoft apps (Office and Dungeon Siege). The third is my e-mail client (PowerMail). Looking at the actual files in those folders, though, the bulk of the config-type files appear to be primarily user-/account-/profile-specific settings (which can all be fairly easily reset from within the software) as opposed to the essential, do-not-delete-these files, which are tucked safely away in a directory that the average user isn’t going to be digging around in. Basically, it appears they’ve placed the stuff that a user might want to delete, and which they can safely delete without breaking the software, into the Documents folder. That way, the user can delete those files without accidentally deleting the “essential” files. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498/88 "2011-03-10T04:37:34Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > This is specifically what I’m curious about. It seems needing to reinstall OSX is unheard of, true? Windows OS builds up cruft over time, robbing disk space and slowing performance, and often dies completely (I never order a PC without a reinstall disk). I can’t count how many times I’ve had to do Windows reinstalls over the years, XP was the worst with respect to long-term stability and performance. True. I have never come across a single case in 30 years where “reinstall Mac OS” was the answer to anything except hardware disk corruption. Despite the claim below, this does happen on Windows, > [@jz78817](#): > > Windows does no such thing. The other shit people install does that. Which is a distinction without a difference to the Windows user. Simply doesn’t happen on Mac. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498/89 "2011-03-10T04:43:10Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > I’m not feeling particularly charitable about Apple at the moment. I have a flaky Mac Mini on my bench. Changing the memory is a procedure that has to be seen to be believed involving a putty knife, tiny screwdriver, needle-nose pliers and a lot os patience. The same thing with a PC can often be done with no tools at all. > > When they fail, they leave a crater. I have no experience with the Mini Mac, but are you comparing similar form factors here? I remember opening my first G4 … hardened PC engineers were in awe that the door flipped down (using a simple latch, no tools) and the whole MB was sitting right there flat on the desk in front of you. Every man jack of them had grated knuckles wrestling with the ludicrous enclosure fastenings that various PCs employed, and were literally gaping that it could be so easy. So easy. And the difference was just thought in design; the realisation that ordinary people who do not possess Torx gear might need to access inside this case for perfectly reasonable reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498/90 "2011-03-10T04:45:57Z")
Quoth **mhendo** : > [@](#): > > Just out of interest, what percentage of Mac users do you think make regular use of the terminal? Is it greater than one half of one percent? I’m not really in a position to answer that, since most of the folks I know with Macs are other physicists, which I’m sure would skew the statistics considerably. But among the general population, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was somewhere in that vicinity. Then again, though, I also wonder what percentage of the general population uses the “advanced functions” of Windows that **Jules Andre** mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498/91 "2011-03-10T04:47:07Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > Not having a registry is one of OS X’s claimed advantages, but I think it’s not all it’s made out to be. Firstly, there is a huge issue with permissions. All the problems I’ve encountered have “reset permissions” as a proposed solution. Never once have I had to do this. What is this “huge issue”? My caveat is I’ve never used Macs in a multi-user environment, home only. > [@](#): > > Secondly, **I get the feeling there is a registry** , just that there isn’t a program to easily edit it, so you have to use the Terminal. A lot of the deeper options can only be changed using the Terminal, which honestly is harder to use than Regedit. Erm, nope. No registry. Good lord, we’re criticising them based on a feeling now? ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498/92 "2011-03-10T04:50:43Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > the registry is not a single, monolithic entity, nor does it corrupt all that easily Yes it is, and yes it does. I’m no Mac or Windows zealot - as I said I’ve used both productively over decades - but good lord where have you been? I’ve had to use regedit more times than I can count, and if it gets corrupt, or you make a serious mistake while editing it, goodnight and goodbye. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498/93 "2011-03-10T05:06:04Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > It’s not what you said, though. > > Your statement said that Macs are more comprehensible and “work more like you expect.” No, I said "Macs are simpler, more reliable, more comprehensible, and work more like you expect (or would if your expectations are not that it work exactly like you are conditioned by Windows to think all computers should). ". I stand by that. > [@](#): > > This implies that someone with no knowledge of computers, someone who has no experience with Windows and no experience with Macs, and is not conditioned by any expectations, will find Macs more comprehensible. Precisely. > [@](#): > > This is simply a Mac-centric assertion. \*\*There’s nothing about getting around in a Mac operating system that is inherently more intuitive or simple than getting around in Windows. \*\*Find an alien from another planet who’s never used the technology, and both systems would probably be pretty much equally comprehensible. I dispute that; my personal experience (NOT being a Mac zealot, and having used both OSs since release - indeed I guess I would have spent more hours in front of a Windows desktop than a Mac, to this point) is that inexperienced users DO take to the Mac interface more easily. > [@](#): > > As you could also take your statement and turn it around. “Windows computers are more comprehensible, and work more like you expect (or would if your expectations are not that it work exactly like you are conditioned by Macs to think all computers should).” You could, like you could turn around any statement if you so chose. My contention is, obviously, that this formulation is less valid than mine. > [@](#): > > The fact is that, for about 99 percent of the population, we are comfortable with one operating system or the other precisely because it is what we have become accustomed to. I don’t prefer Windows out of some hidebound attachment to Microsoft, or a hatred of Macs. I prefer Windows precisely because i know where things are, how to do things, and have used it for long enough that i’ve developed an understanding of where things go and what they do. And because Windows is, and has been for some time, a stable and usable operating system that does the things i need it to do. And I contend you would have had an easier time getting to grips with things at the beginning if you’d happened to have started with a Mac. > [@](#): > > If i had been using Macs for the past two decades, i’d probably feel the same way about Macs. Well there you go. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498/94 "2011-03-10T07:20:43Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > I have no experience with the Mini Mac, but are you comparing similar form factors here? No, I’m comparing machines by price. > [@](#): > > I remember opening my first G4 … hardened PC engineers were in awe that the door flipped down (using a simple latch, no tools) and the whole MB was sitting right there flat on the desk in front of you. Every man jack of them had grated knuckles wrestling with the ludicrous enclosure fastenings that various PCs employed, and were literally gaping that it could be so easy. So easy. And the difference was just thought in design; the realisation that ordinary people who do not possess Torx gear might need to access inside this case for perfectly reasonable reasons. Agreed, a current Mac Pro is a thing of beauty. You pay for that beauty. A “Trox”…hmmmm, is that anything like a [“Pentalobe”?](http://www.tuaw.com/2011/01/20/ifixit-releases-iphone-4-liberation-kit-for-pentalobe-screws/). On rare occasion, Apple admits that lowly users might need to get into the product they bought, and they do indeed make it easy in those cases. But if Apple decides you don’t? Then they make it as difficult as possible. And a “cheap” Mac is damned difficult to get into. I have scars from putty knife slips opening iPhones to replace the battery (those crappy plastic tools never work on a fresh iThing). I’ve replaced hard drives in iMacs - hell, I’ve replaced all the bad caps on an older iMac. I know what I’m talking about. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498/95 "2011-03-10T09:04:48Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > Never once have I had to do this. What is this “huge issue”? > > My caveat is I’ve never used Macs in a multi-user environment, home only. > > Erm, nope. No registry. Good lord, we’re criticising them based on a feeling now? Files that can’t be deleted or edited, programs that don’t work, or worse. The iMovie problem is also said to be caused by permissions. If you only have 1 user, that’s probably why you don’t have any problems. There’s no registry, so where are all the settings stored? Isn’t it better to have them in one place, with a GUI so you can easily edit them instead of memorising all the commands? ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498/96 "2011-03-10T11:47:49Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > And the difference was just thought in design; the realisation that ordinary people who do not possess Torx gear might need to access inside this case for perfectly reasonable reasons. I have seem some decidedly awkward and/or weird case setups (used to have a Compaq Presario where the hard drive was screwed down onto the top of the case’s internal frame, rather than being in a drive bay, for example), but I’ve never ever ever seen a PC that you needed a torx driver to get into. They all used Phillips screws (my current computer case uses thumbscrews to hold two side panels on). That said, my old XBox required a torx driver to get into. Had to spend ten bucks at wal mart to get a driver set for it. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498/97 "2011-03-10T12:11:04Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > I have seem some decidedly awkward and/or weird case setups (used to have a Compaq Presario where the hard drive was screwed down onto the top of the case’s internal frame, rather than being in a drive bay, for example), but I’ve never ever ever seen a PC that you needed a torx driver to get into. They all used Phillips screws (my current computer case uses thumbscrews to hold two side panels on). HP did or does use them almost universally; I’ve messed with several Visualize workstations that were assembled with Torx screws. the ones they use(d) were weird in that they also had a slot across the screw head so you could use a standard flat screwdriver in a pinch. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498/98 "2011-03-10T15:13:17Z")
Boy is this the thread for me. I wanted so badly to drink the Kool Aid. In 2003 I bought my first Mac, a PowerBook G4. It was a refurb from the Apple Store in NY. It worked incredibly well. I did buy AppleCare, and it was - as attested to elsewhere here- worth every penny. The arrogance- and one must admit to the arrogance- of employees and long-time users is somewhat justified but still irritating. The machine very very rarely locks up. Rarely will an application lock- and when it does, it does not affect anything else. The devices are incredibly well made. [Go to 1:08 on this How A Macbook Pro is made video to see the unibody solid aluminum block design](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxbiIpXZfG8). There are analogous devices elsewhere in high tech. For example, the Panasonic DVX-100 bodies are a single casting made of magnesium. From there, electronic boards, wiring and connectors are mounted. But the idea of a unibody video camera meant ( to me ) that the chances of elements like the CCD’s becoming mis-aligned were greatly reduced. And, their image rocks. 😃 Tomorrow, oddly, I am being given my first brand new Macintosh by my employers. After I settle in, I’ll sell the machine I am typing on now in our Marketplace. ( To be clear, it’s my property, not the company’s ! ) This new machine is more than I need, but I’ve never asked for a computer before and I’m 4 years in with the company. I do edit video, and we were able to score an 8 gig machine for under $ 2,700.00. That is an enormous investment, and I am well aware of the value of the machine. It is my entire office. My rolling backpack weighs 34 pounds. I can set up in about 15 minutes anywhere in North America and have my office in front of me. Using a Mac gives me the near-complete reliability and stability that allows me this freedom of travel. I take it out, I go to work, I put it away. 99% of the time, it is that simple. I’m not sure how to put a value on that. Cartooniverse, who still remembers " C:\ FDISK " :eek: ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498/99 "2011-03-10T16:11:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Rarely will an application lock- and when it does, it does not affect anything else. sounds like just about any pre-emptive multitasking OS. Just because the Mac was the last to get one… ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498/100 "2011-03-10T16:15:18Z")
Most Apple computers I have used have about the same kind of problems PC’s do. In fact, I prefer PC’s to Apple’s by quite a bit. Apple has never made a really amazing computer that I’ve seen. Not bad or anything, but just normal/average. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-anything-ever-go-wrong-with-a-mac/573498.md?page=6)