# Does Australia automatically have the UK's back in any military conflict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 13, 2006, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260 "2006-11-13T16:44:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/1 "2006-11-13T16:44:23Z")
Let’s say the UK and someone in Australia’s neck of the woods were going at it, and the UK was (for whatever reason) at a disadvantage in that conflict. Is Australia obligated in any fashion though treaties or other agreements to defend or protect the UK’s interests. Would Australia automatically take the UKs side in any conflict? ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/2 "2006-11-13T16:50:51Z")
If we were having a go at NZ you can betcha those Aussies would be right behind us. 😃 On a serious note the answer is yes the Australians would back us just as we would them. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/3 "2006-11-13T16:54:04Z")
I think the only mutual defense treaty that Australia and the UK both belonged to was the Southeast Asia Collective Defense Treaty which created SEATO, and is now defunct. Australia and the UK have been involved together is some military action (most recently in the Iraq War), and both have mutual defense treaties with the US (ANZUS and NATO, respectively), but neither is bound to aid the other. For example, Australia was not involved in the Falkland Islands War. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/4 "2006-11-13T17:03:35Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] If we were having a go at NZ you can betcha those Aussies would be right behind us. 😃 [/QUOTE] Probably not, since Australia and New Zealand have a mutual defence treaty, ANZUS. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/5 "2006-11-13T17:21:05Z")
Prior to Australia’s adoption of the Statue of Wesminster (1931) in 1942 (retroactive to 1939) a declaration of war by the sovereign on the advice of _British_ ministers bound Australia. It was the same for all dominions before the SoW. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/6 "2006-11-13T17:26:08Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] Prior to Australia’s adoption of the Statue of Wesminster (1931) in 1942 (retroactive to 1939) a declaration of war by the sovereign on the advice of _British_ ministers bound Australia. It was the same for all dominions before the SoW. [/QUOTE] Not only has the Statute of Westminster changed things, but countries don’t declare war these days. I suspect that the last time either the UK or Australia declared war was back in 1941, against Japan – and that war is long over. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/7 "2006-11-13T21:05:20Z")
There are no treaty obligations, and the gap between British and Australian politics has widened immensely since 1945. Our turning our backs on our old Imperial trading partners by joining the European Common Market in 1973 was a real slap in the face for them and they’ve had to work hard at finding new markets for their exports. Whilst the Crown connection endures, I don’t think it will last many more years beyond the present reign. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/8 "2006-11-13T22:41:12Z")
Out of curiosity in a conflict against a regional power what could the Australians bring to the table re military horsepower? Are they so buffered/isolated being an island that the distance to strike them is their main defense? ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/9 "2006-11-13T23:00:49Z")
[QUOTE=astro] Out of curiosity in a conflict against a regional power what could the Australians bring to the table re military horsepower? [/QUOTE] We have a smallish (well, probably ok for our size) but mostly modern defence force. Our soldiers are very well trained, but there aren’t enough of them. We have a few expensive new pieces of hardware and quite a few more beat up old ones. Australia has never single-handedly invaded anywhere, so I don’t know what we are and aren’t capable of in that regard, but in places like Iraq where we have been part of a larger force, we can certainly turn out a bunch of soldiers, a few Blackhawks, a warship or two, some fighter jets… I guess we’re a second or third level military power - not the UK, US, or China, but we ain’t Botswana either. > [@](#): > > Are they so buffered/isolated being an island that the distance to strike them is their main defense? Yes. Although, being an island is only part of it. A lot of it is being a freakin’ HUGE island which presents its north face to the nearest neighbours, huddles all its cities in the far south, and plonks several thousand miles of inhospitable desert in between. I have heard it said that the only country which could successfully invade Australia alone is the US. I find that a bit far-fetched as I think there might be one or two others with a shot at it, but basically it wouldn’t be easy. Australia is nothing like a military superpower, but we would be able to pull significantly above our weight if our own soil was invaded. Logistics are on our side. New Zealand forces would be there to assist us before we even picked up the phone to ask. The US almost certainly would. The UK likely would do something. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/10 "2006-11-13T23:12:32Z")
To answer the question more directly, yes the US is, as far as I know, obliged to assist us, and we are obliged to assist them (against attacks on home soil - not actions like Iraq). As **Mk VII** said, we have drifted apart from the UK politically, and those few old fashioned Australians who make the big trip to the “Mother Country” get a rude shock at Heathrow when they are forced to line up with the “Aliens” and watch the Germans getting through Immigration faster. Personally, I don’t blame the UK one bit for this. Relations between the UK and Australia these days are cultural rather than political, and we’re still rather fond of one another, although this is less about politics and more about watching one another’s bad soap operas. The UK would likely assist Australia, but for no other reason than that it would be the “done thing”. As far as I know, they are under no obligation to assist. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/11 "2006-11-13T23:20:37Z")
[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog] New Zealand forces would be there to assist us before we even picked up the phone to ask. The US almost certainly would. The UK likely would do something. [/QUOTE] WWII-style didn’t the Australians have a scorched earth policy to lengthen Japanese supply lines to unsustainable levels, were an invasion to happen? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/12 "2006-11-13T23:20:54Z")
[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog] Australia has never single-handedly invaded anywhere, so I don’t know what we are and aren’t capable of in that regard, but in places like Iraq where we have been part of a larger force, we can certainly turn out a bunch of soldiers, a few Blackhawks, a warship or two, some fighter jets… [/QUOTE] There’s plenty of countries in a similar position. And in a similar way to Australia’s major role in East Timor, other countries have provided peacekeeping forces elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/13 "2006-11-13T23:34:32Z")
[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog] Relations between the UK and Australia these days are cultural rather than political, and we’re still rather fond of one another, although this is less about politics and more about watching one another’s bad soap operas. [/QUOTE] We get Neighbours (indeed the only reason this programme still exists is 'cos the BBC pays for it) and Home and Away. What on earth are you lot watching? ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/14 "2006-11-13T23:36:35Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] There’s plenty of countries in a similar position. And in a similar way to Australia’s major role in East Timor, other countries have provided peacekeeping forces elsewhere. [/QUOTE] Yeah. That’s why it’s hard to predict what would happen. We’re a sort of middle to small level Western power along with many similar countries. Our case is more confused for geographical reasons. You could compare the Australian defence forces to those of several European countries in terms of numbers and amount of hardware, but the specialities are different. I would wager that for example, the ration of support ships and aircraft to combat ones is probably more skewed towards the former here and the latter in Europe. We specialise in logistics and supply because we need to, and a European country would be better off specialising in rapid response. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/15 "2006-11-13T23:39:10Z")
[QUOTE=Struan] We get Neighbours (indeed the only reason this programme still exists is 'cos the BBC pays for it) and Home and Away. What on earth are you lot watching? [/QUOTE] _East Enders_ was on for years and years. No idea if it still is. We were also burdened by _Birds of a Feather_ and that thing about the 1960s country copper, the name of which escapes me. Why do our two countries insist on subjecting each other to this stuff? Maybe we’re not allies after all! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/16 "2006-11-14T00:06:24Z")
[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog] _East Enders_ was on for years and years. No idea if it still is. We were also burdened by _Birds of a Feather_ and that thing about the 1960s country copper, the name of which escapes me. Why do our two countries insist on subjecting each other to this stuff? Maybe we’re not allies after all! 😃 [/QUOTE] Heh heh, it’s “Look at our ancient heritage” vs. “Look at those hot surfing teens!”. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/17 "2006-11-14T00:27:26Z")
New Zealand gets_Coronation Street_ and Australia gets _The Bill_ as well, I think. The ‘Brisbane Line’ was a controversial plan that was much criticised (in retrospect) for abandoning much of Northern Australia to the invader ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/18 "2006-11-14T00:38:45Z")
[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog] _East Enders_ was on for years and years. No idea if it still is. We were also burdened by _Birds of a Feather_ and that thing about the **1960s country copper** , the name of which escapes me. Why do our two countries insist on subjecting each other to this stuff? Maybe we’re not allies after all! 😃 [/QUOTE] Heartbeat. We also get “A touch of Frost” and Corrie and Rosemary and Thyme and all of those other “Drama-Soap-Batty old lady in a country village investigates Gubbins” style programmes. The ABC is to blame for a lot of that. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/19 "2006-11-14T04:07:55Z")
[QUOTE=Struan] WWII-style didn’t the Australians have a scorched earth policy to lengthen Japanese supply lines to unsustainable levels, were an invasion to happen? [/QUOTE] The _US_, in the person of General MacArthur, had a plan to abandon the northern half of Australia down to the notorious [Brisbane Line](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Line) . Wiki claims the then Prime Minister Robert Menzies originated the plan but I’ve not heard that side of it before. It did contribute to his losing office in the middle of the war though. ---
**Author:** ![Racer1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee59a6/32.png) [@Racer1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Racer1)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/20 "2006-11-14T07:39:13Z")
Difficult to cite, but it’s worth noting that were Australia attacked or left significantly at risk in a conflict, there would be huge public pressure on the UK government to get involved. Almost everyone knows someone who has emigrated out that way, and there are loads of Aussies over here. Plus there is the historical/cultural thing, and a lot of people would see it as an attack on our own. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260.md?page=2)