# Does Australia automatically have the UK's back in any military conflict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 13, 2006, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260 "2006-11-13T16:44:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/21 "2006-11-14T07:53:51Z")
[QUOTE=Struan] Heh heh, it’s “Look at our ancient heritage” vs. “Look at those hot surfing teens!”. [/QUOTE] You forgot the buxom wenches playing beach volleyball. 😃 Never, ever, forget those beauties. That is your first and last warning. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![mamboman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecb155/32.png) [@mamboman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mamboman)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/22 "2006-11-14T09:31:42Z")
[QUOTE=Askance] The _US_, in the person of General MacArthur, had a plan to abandon the northern half of Australia down to the notorious [Brisbane Line](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Line) . Wiki claims the then Prime Minister Robert Menzies originated the plan but I’ve not heard that side of it before. It did contribute to his losing office in the middle of the war though. [/QUOTE] Bob Menzies was out of office by August 1941. mm ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_McChoakumchild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8797f3/32.png) [@Dr\_McChoakumchild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_McChoakumchild)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/23 "2006-11-14T10:19:21Z")
[QUOTE=Sierra Indigo] Heartbeat. We also get “A touch of Frost” and Corrie and Rosemary and Thyme and all of those other “Drama-Soap-Batty old lady in a country village investigates Gubbins” style programmes. The ABC is to blame for a lot of that. [/QUOTE] And don’t forget _Midsomer Murders_. The televisual equivalent of the Mogodon tablet. It turns you into an old-age pensioner as you watch it - you cannot keep your eyes open after the 9pm mark. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/24 "2006-11-14T10:27:41Z")
[QUOTE=Dr McChoakumchild] And don’t forget _Midsomer Murders_. The televisual equivalent of the Mogodon tablet. It turns you into an old-age pensioner as you watch it - you cannot keep your eyes open after the 9pm mark. [/QUOTE] I LOVE _Midsomer Murders_ on a Friday night. Alas, I do agree it is a bit of a soporific, because I wake up snoring just as the final credits are rolling having missed all of the vital clues inbetween!!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/25 "2006-11-14T15:22:44Z")
[QUOTE=kambuckta] are rolling having missed all of the vital clues inbetween!!! [/QUOTE] Midsomer Murders has **vital clues?** :smack: While Australia/New Zealand defence co-operation is still active, ANZUS is more AUS (or maybe USA), due to NZs Anti-nuclear stance, vocal opposition to military action in Iraq, and (Aussie PM) John Howards slavish devotion to GWB. Si ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/26 "2006-11-14T16:07:10Z")
A rather patriotic mate of mine from school, who is very pro-England/royalty, came up with a great claim. That if the UK and Austrailia went to war, Austrailia would lose as their troops owed loyalty to the Queen and would stand down in a flash. He’s the sort of guy who actually half beleives this, he supports England at footie to the derision of NI supporters :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/27 "2006-11-14T16:55:06Z")
[QUOTE=Pushkin] A rather patriotic mate of mine from school, who is very pro-England/royalty, came up with a great claim. That if the UK and Austrailia went to war, Austrailia would lose as their troops owed loyalty to the Queen and would stand down in a flash. He’s the sort of guy who actually half beleives this, he supports England at footie to the derision of NI supporters :dubious: [/QUOTE] But Australians owe their loyalty to the Queen of Australia, who is a different legal person from the Queen of the United Kingdom (even if they are united in one flesh and bones body). The UK and Australia being at war with each other is so unlikely that it’s hard to envisage the scenario. For a start, hundreds of thousands of enemy aliens would need to be interned in each country – and there would also be hundreds of thousands of dual citizens (my brother is one, for a start), who might also have to be treated as enemy aliens unless they renounced one citizenship. But one thing that would be very likely to happen would be a very speedy revival of the republican movement in Australia, so that HM would very shortly no longer be Quen of Australia. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/28 "2006-11-14T21:24:54Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] For a start, hundreds of thousands of enemy aliens would need to be interned in each country [/QUOTE] Ok, so the Aussies would herd all the Poms into the Nullabor. What could the English do… Evacuate the last few remaining citizens from London and seal off the M25? 😃 Si ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/29 "2006-11-15T03:00:48Z")
[QUOTE=mamboman] [QUOTE=Askance] It did contribute to his losing office in the middle of the war though. [/QUOTE] Bob Menzies was out of office by August 1941. mm [/QUOTE] Your point being what? That August 1941 isn’t the exact precise middle of the war but a third of the way through it? Good grief. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/30 "2006-11-15T03:06:22Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] But Australians owe their loyalty to the Queen of Australia, who is a different legal person from the Queen of the United Kingdom (even if they are united in one flesh and bones body)… [/QUOTE] What happened with Grenada? Didn’t the British PM advise Elizabeth II of the UK to make a speech supporting the invasion while the Grenadan PM advised Elizabeth II of Greneda to make one opposing it? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/31 "2006-11-15T03:26:37Z")
[QUOTE=Askance] > [@mamboman](#): > > [Quote=Askance] > > It did contribute to his losing office in the middle of the war though. Bob Menzies was out of office by August 1941. [/quote] Your point being what? That August 1941 isn’t the exact precise middle of the war but a third of the way through it? Good grief. [/QUOTE] I think **amboman’s** point was that your previous statement seems contradictory: > [@Askance](#): > > The US, in the person of General MacArthur, had a plan to abandon the northern half of Australia down to the notorious Brisbane Line . Wiki claims the then Prime Minister Robert Menzies originated the plan but I’ve not heard that side of it before. It did contribute to his losing office in the middle of the war though. If Menzies lost office in August 1941, that was before the US came into the war against Japan. So if MacArthur was the person who came up with the idea of the Brisbane line, it must have been after December 7, 1941, by which time Menzies had already been out of office for at least half a year. Hard to see how McArthur’s policy after December, 1941, could have contributed to Menzies losing office in August, 1941. Now, if it was Menzies’ idea, that could have contributed to him losing office. But if it was Menzies’ plan, then it’s not correct to suggest that it was MacArthur who came up with the plan. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/32 "2006-11-15T03:53:11Z")
[QUOTE=Askance] The _US_, in the person of General MacArthur, had a plan to abandon the northern half of Australia down to the notorious [Brisbane Line](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Line) . Wiki claims the then Prime Minister Robert Menzies originated the plan but I’ve not heard that side of it before. It did contribute to his losing office in the middle of the war though. [/QUOTE] My virulently pro-Labor, Irish, anti-English great-aunt used to tell me that the Brisbane line was a Menzies-inspired strategy springing from his commitment to the UK i.e. rather than getting Australian troops back from other theatres (and thus upsetting the British), Australia would just abandon the northern part of the country to the Japanese. Hence the mid-war Labor victory for John Curtin, whose policy was to get the Australian troops back to defend the homeland and to turn away from the UK and towards the USA for support. There’s probably a grain of truth in all of this somewhere. It was always a bit hard to tell with Auntie May’s rants. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/33 "2006-11-15T12:25:02Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] What happened with Grenada? Didn’t the British PM advise Elizabeth II of the UK to make a speech supporting the invasion while the Grenadan PM advised Elizabeth II of Greneda to make one opposing it? [/QUOTE] The Queen doesn’t make any speeches that are even remotely political, except for the opening of Parliament where she reads out a government-prpared list of upcoming legislation. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/34 "2006-11-15T14:43:22Z")
[QUOTE=Cunctator] My virulently pro-Labor, Irish, anti-English great-aunt used to tell me that the Brisbane line was a Menzies-inspired strategy springing from his commitment to the UK i.e. rather than getting Australian troops back from other theatres (and thus upsetting the British), Australia would just abandon the northern part of the country to the Japanese. Hence the mid-war Labor victory for John Curtin, whose policy was to get the Australian troops back to defend the homeland and to turn away from the UK and towards the USA for support. There’s probably a grain of truth in all of this somewhere. It was always a bit hard to tell with Auntie May’s rants. [/QUOTE] It sounds a bit like the retreat from Burma - stretch the enemy’s supply lines and torment them on the way. Quite sensible. From what my uncle told me about 1939 - 45 a (UK) Labour victory was a no brainer - the troops were seriously p/ssed off. My understanding is that Australia is most worried about Indonesia, small boats and Dingo come to mind. Since the vast majority of British would emigrate to Australia like a shot, and could not give a toss about being called ‘Poms’, if Aus got in problems, we would be in there. Conversely, as we like the Australians, they tend to come over here, and despite the strange immigration queues they are very welcome. Personally I would grant all ANZ citizens UK citizenship - if ANZ reciprocated the UK would be empty ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260/35 "2006-11-16T02:23:32Z")
[QUOTE=Northern Piper] I think **amboman’s** point was that your previous statement seems contradictory: If Menzies lost office in August 1941, that was before the US came into the war against Japan. So if MacArthur was the person who came up with the idea of the Brisbane line, it must have been after December 7, 1941, by which time Menzies had already been out of office for at least half a year. Hard to see how McArthur’s policy after December, 1941, could have contributed to Menzies losing office in August, 1941. Now, if it was Menzies’ idea, that could have contributed to him losing office. But if it was Menzies’ plan, then it’s not correct to suggest that it was MacArthur who came up with the plan. [/QUOTE] I did elide two elections, but in essense I’m right. Menzies was said to have come up with the Brisbane Line plan while in office _in the event of an invasion_, supposedly to save Australian troops for the defense of Britian. He lost office in 1941 partially because he spent most of his time in England, under the impression he had a snowball’s chance in hell of replacing Winston Churchill as _England’s_ PM! He failed to regain office in the 1943 election at least partially because of the allegations about the Brisbane Line. Whether it was the same Brisbane Line plan, a new one inspired by the old one, or a completely new one is unknown, but MacArthur is separately suspected of having planned to abandon the northern part of Australia in the event of invasion also. All clear? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-australia-automatically-have-the-uks-back-in-any-military-conflict/380260.md?page=1)