# Does Buddhism address Homosexuality? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 8, 2008, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247 "2008-12-08T15:17:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247/21 "2008-12-09T06:15:22Z")
But then, there are no lamas in Thai Buddhism, and the Sangha (top religious body) will defrock a monk pronto for, among other things, sexual practices. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247/22 "2008-12-09T06:16:24Z")
Wait . . . Buddhism isn’t all about every man for himself? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247/23 "2008-12-09T06:27:35Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Wait . . . Buddhism isn’t all about every man for himself? There was a particularly humorous case right outside of Bangkok a few years ago of a monk who would put on a very bad wig and go cruising for hookers at night. He’d been filming himself with them to boot, in a room he had rented somewhere. The police confiscated all of the tapes when they broke in on him. Buddhism itself may not address gay or any other sexual practices, but it’s taken seriously by the religious and secular authorities. I don’t think you can go to jail – the police were involved in my example mainly because he was being a pornographer – but they’ll kick you out of the temple. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247/24 "2008-12-09T06:30:33Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Can you expand on this? It doesn’t seem to wash with Dalai. Are you thinking of a ‘technicality’ the like of which Pres. Clinton used to support his ‘non-sexual’ relationship with Ms. Lewinsky? or is there actually verbiage in the code that says, “Man on Woman=Bad; Man on Man=shortcut to enlightenment” No. Amongst the Sangha, the community of monastics, all sexual activity is prohibited. But only sexual intercourse warrants automatic expulsion with no possibility of return. The three big offenses that warrant expulsion are (1) Killing a human being, regardless of the circumstances. (2) Sexual Intercourse. (3) Claiming to have achieved enlightment when one has not. Sexual activities which are NOT sexual intercourse fall under a lesser offense category. They basically warrant what could be called “Probation” but not expulsion. If a Monk really, really, REALLY wants sex by the way, but still wants to be able to return to the community, all he has to do is declare to a witness that he is leaving the order. If he does that, then he could be accepted back at a later time. I’m talking about Therevada Buddhism, which is the oldest surviving sect and has the strictest code for monastics. Mahayana and Tibetan Buddhism have some differences but as far as I know aren’t against homosexuals _in particular_ as they are cautious about lust and sex in general. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247/25 "2008-12-09T06:36:02Z")
Yes, what **Blalron** says is pretty much my experience. I did, however, once know a lady Peace Corps Volunteer in the Central region, and she told me there was an unusually high incidence of monks with STDs coming into her health station. Now that I think about it, I think there are actual secular laws on the books, but I don’t think jail time is the penalty for just sex. But the Sangha will use the law to back up its decision to expel wayward monks. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247/26 "2008-12-09T07:04:27Z")
Sam and Blalron, wanted to ask: when you talk about “monastic community”, do you mean the customary (compulsory?) service that all males of a certain age perform, or is this more of a core, long-term community? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247/27 "2008-12-09T07:32:24Z")
It’s customary in Thailand, not cumpulsory. The short-termers and the long-termers are usually mixed in together, I believe. I’m not aware of any temple communities devoted solely to long-termers or to short-termers. All males are usually a monk at some point. It can be for a day or a lifetime, but I believe most will do it for the three-month Buddhist Lent period from late July to late October. By law, employers have to give time off to employees who do this; it’s called “monk leave”; not sure if it’s paid leave or not. Actually, with the adoption of more modern lifestyles in the urban areas, the three-month stint is not quite as common as it once was. Three days is becoming more like it. If a single man becomes a monk, his parents receive credit for it in the afterlife. For married men, their wives will receive credit. So parents will really push to their sons to do their monk stint before marriage. This may just be a local belief, but it’s pretty solid here; everyone believes it. ---
**Author:** ![Neidhart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Neidhart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neidhart)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247/28 "2008-12-09T13:47:49Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > The three big offenses that warrant expulsion are . . . (3) Claiming to have achieved enlightment when one has not. 😕 How do the authorities know whether you’ve really reached enlightenment? Do they have an E(nlightenment)-Meter in the office? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247/29 "2008-12-09T13:50:15Z")
It’s possibly a case of if you really have, you couldn’t be bothered with going around telling everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247/30 "2008-12-09T14:25:33Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > cumpulsory. Ba dump bump CHA!!! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247/31 "2008-12-09T14:33:21Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Ba dump bump CHA!!! > > 🆒 Holy Freudian Slip, Batman! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247/32 "2008-12-09T14:50:58Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > It’s possibly a case of if you really have, you couldn’t be bothered with going around telling everyone. Then no one ever would have heard of Siddharta Gautama. Buddhism exists because he got enlightened and wouldn’t shut up about it. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247/33 "2008-12-09T14:58:29Z")
Not exactly. The Buddhist holiday of Makha Bucha, as it’s called in Thailand, commemorates Buddha preaching to 1250 enlightened monks who went to hear him “without prior summons.” They just all spontaneously knew he was the Buddha and that they should go to him. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247/34 "2008-12-09T16:28:35Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Not exactly. The Buddhist holiday of Makha Bucha, as it’s called in Thailand, commemorates Buddha preaching to 1250 enlightened monks who went to hear him “without prior summons.” They just all spontaneously knew he was the Buddha and that they should go to him. That sounds kind of . . . un-Buddhist. I.e., it would have to involve some sort of supernatural agency, and that’s not what Buddhism is **about.** ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247/35 "2008-12-09T16:29:35Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > Come visit me - just up from the Lethe; don’t forget! Mythology humor. I like the cut of your jib. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247/36 "2008-12-09T16:57:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That sounds kind of . . . un-Buddhist. I.e., it would have to involve some sort of supernatural agency, and that’s not what Buddhism is **about.** But isn’t Buddhism about being in sync, so to speak, with the world as a whole? I can see how it could fit in, in theory. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247/37 "2008-12-09T17:09:03Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > Perhaps, but “let’s not kill all the gays” isn’t exactly setting the bar very high, is it? Come now, that’s hardly a fair assessment of the guy. I have never known the Dalai Lama to call for any kind of violence against anyone. Sure he’s not embracing gays, but his views are not the dogmatic heaven/hell version you’d see from other religions. To him, you can be gay, but desire itself is the problem. He doesnt seem to espouse any kind of inherent superiority to heterosexuality and if not for procreation, would probably say that asexualness is the best ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247/38 "2008-12-09T17:59:23Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Sam and Blalron, wanted to ask: when you talk about “monastic community”, do you mean the customary (compulsory?) service that all males of a certain age perform, or is this more of a core, long-term community? It’s not compulsory, but in many areas it is customary to take the vows and live as a monk for a short period of time. These temporary monks are most likely going to be “Novices” which means they accept a much shorter list of rules than the fully ordained monks. But celibacy is still on the list. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247/39 "2008-12-09T18:12:57Z")
> [@Neidhart](#): > > 😕 > > How do the authorities know whether you’ve really reached enlightenment? Do they have an E(nlightenment)-Meter in the office? According to this [site](http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/ariyesako/layguide.html#precepts) > [@](#): > > A monk automatically falls from being a bhikkhu31 by committing any of these four offences of Defeat: sexual-intercourse, murder, major-theft, or falsely claiming supernormal abilities. A bhikkhu who falls into any of these four Defeater offences thereby severs himself irrevocably from the bhikkhu community and is no longer considered a bhikkhu. The text portrays it with some vivid similes showing their irreparable nature: as ‘a man with his head cut off’; as ‘a withered leaf fallen from its stem’; as ‘a palm tree cut down’; as ‘a broken stone.’ For while all the other offences can be remedied, these four are terminal. My memory was a bit fuzzy, the list is four instead of three. I’m assuming “Supernormal Ability” means being able to perform some sort of psychic feat. The Buddha was said to have achieved such an advanced mental state that he could perform miracles. For a monk to claim such an ability and not be able to actually do it is a big no-no. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247/40 "2008-12-09T18:53:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That sounds kind of . . . un-Buddhist. I.e., it would have to involve some sort of supernatural agency, and that’s not what Buddhism is **about.** That’s what some variants of Buddhism is about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-buddhism-address-homosexuality/476247.md?page=3)