# Does carpet lay or lie? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 16, 2005, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320 "2005-11-16T16:05:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320/1 "2005-11-16T16:05:45Z")
“On the floor \*\*lays \*\*a carpet” or “On the floor \*\*lies \*\*a carpet”? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320/2 "2005-11-16T16:16:43Z")
I was taught that things lay, people and animals lie. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320/3 "2005-11-16T16:16:52Z")
“On the floor lies a carpet.” Authorities: [British Council](http://www.learnenglish.org.uk/grammar/archive/lielay01.html) [Dr. Grammar](http://www.drgrammar.org/faqs/#17) [AskOxford.com](http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutgrammar/laid) ---
**Author:** ![TrivTriv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@TrivTriv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TrivTriv)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320/4 "2005-11-16T16:18:01Z")
It lies on the floor. You lay it onto the floor. “Lay” is transitive (has a direct object; in this case the carpet); “lie” is intransitive. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320/5 "2005-11-16T16:18:04Z")
You would lay a carpet when installing it, but after that it just lies there. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320/6 "2005-11-16T16:20:01Z")
Thanks for the fast replies. Lie/lay and passed/past are my two biggest grammatical hangups. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320/7 "2005-11-16T16:22:25Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > You would lay a carpet when installing it, but after that it just lies there. And you would lie on the carpet to get laid? ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320/8 "2005-11-16T16:24:20Z")
I looked at those links and I don’t see anything that would say that “On the floor lies a carpet” is correct. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320/9 "2005-11-16T16:28:10Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > And you would lie on the carpet to get laid? Not if the carpet lied to you. Unless it bought you dinner first. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320/10 "2005-11-16T16:28:31Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > And you would lie on the carpet to get laid? And do you lie about it after getting laid? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320/11 "2005-11-16T16:33:13Z")
> [@ratatoskK](#): > > I looked at those links and I don’t see anything that would say that “On the floor lies a carpet” is correct. Dr. Grammar: > [@](#): > > The verb lay means “to place or set down.” It always takes a direct object . . . ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320/12 "2005-11-16T16:43:56Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > And do you lie about it after getting laid? If you know the lay of the land, you would. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320/13 "2005-11-16T16:59:45Z")
Dammit. This is elementary school stuff. To be in a horizontal position is _to lie_, of which the **past tense** is _lay_. The carpet lies on the floor. It lay there in the same place last week, too. In fact, it has lain there for a year now. To **place something in a position where it lies** is to **lay** it there. The rug dealer comes in and **lays** the carpet. He **laid** mine last month. He **has laid** carpets since he was a boy. The thing itself lies somewhere. He who put it there lays it there. _Lie_ is intransitive; _lay_ is transitive. You lie on the couch, with no direct object. You lay something else somewhere. The “Lie” points back to the subject; the “lay” to the direct object. The one oddball usage, exemplified in the old children’s prayer, is that when you lie down, you speak of **laying yourself** , a reflexive use of the transitive verb. “Now I lay me down to sleep” is correct, but if you didn’t have the “me” (=myself) in there, it would be “Now I lie down to sleep” – unmetrical but grammatically accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320/14 "2005-11-16T19:21:20Z")
> [@vetbridge](#): > > If you know the lay of the land, you would. Pardon me if I’m being whooshed, but isn’t it “the lie of the land”? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320/15 "2005-11-16T19:21:41Z")
> [@ratatoskK](#): > > I was taught that things lay, people and animals lie. It’s actually pretty simple. All due respect, but whoever taught you that was 100% wrong. Were you taught this in school? Any chance you remember wrong? A subject lies down, whether human or animal. One lays an object down, no matter what its composition. Period, really. You should reread the links carefully; they say the same thing, and they disagree with your understanding. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320/16 "2005-11-16T19:33:43Z")
> [@Dead Cat](#): > > Pardon me if I’m being whooshed, but isn’t it “the lie of the land”? You’ve met her? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320/17 "2005-11-16T19:45:13Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Dammit. This is elementary school stuff. If **Poly** is the high priest here, are all the rest of us just lay people? If you get called on the carpet about lying that you got laid, get angry about it and throw a bag of chips, is that a Frito lay? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320/18 "2005-11-16T21:24:46Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > If **Poly** is the high priest here, are all the rest of us just lay people? > > If you get called on the carpet about lying that you got laid, get angry about it and throw a bag of chips, is that a Frito lay? This is getting past bad puns. “Let sleeping dogs lie. They seldom tell the truth anyway.” – attributed to Groucho Marx “I’ve always been interested in the lay of the land – especially when I was going through puberty.” Then, of course, we have minstrels courting fair damsels with their lays. (I forebear from making any of the obvious collection of possible puns there.) I once went to school with a (Protestant) boy who was convinced that the reason for the church terms was that Catholic priests were required to be celibate, and the rest weren’t, so they were called laymen. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320/19 "2005-11-16T22:47:50Z")
Coincidence: _Lai_ means ‘song’ in both French and Urdu. I enjoyed the jokes about getting laid the best, but my contribution here is historical grammar. The intransitive verb _lie_ comes from Old English _licgan_, from Germanic \*_ligjan_, from Proto-Indo-European \*legh-. This is the most basic, original form of the verb. The transitive, causative verb _lay_ comes from Old English _lecgan_, from Germanic \*_lagjan_. The vowel shift i\>a is how the causative form of the verb was derived from the intransitive. _Lecgan_ literally means ‘cause to lie’. Compare this with causative formants in Hindi, made by inserting the vowel -a-. For example, _uTh_- means ‘read’, and the causative _uTha-_ means ‘raise’. You can even see this process at work in the English words rise and raise. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2005, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-carpet-lay-or-lie/331320/20 "2005-11-16T22:50:28Z")
I meant _uTh-_ means ‘rise’ and _uTha_- means ‘raise’. In both the Hindi and English examples, the causative is formed by insertion of -a-. This process is how _lay_ was derived as a causative form of _lie_.