# Does Cheney have the power to declassify? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2006, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800 "2006-02-16T15:18:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800/1 "2006-02-16T15:18:04Z")
On [CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/16/cheney.classified.ap/index.html) they are repeating Cheney’s claims that he can declassify information under an executive order. This is the first I’ve heard of any such claim by any VP. Is this an extension of the unitary claim? Is there any fact to back his assertion up? I suppose this is a bit of a GQ, but I’m sure there’s many sides to it, so I put it here. ---
**Author:** ![MMI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@MMI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MMI)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800/2 "2006-02-16T15:57:23Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > On [CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/16/cheney.classified.ap/index.html) they are repeating Cheney’s claims that he can declassify information under an executive order. This is the first I’ve heard of any such claim by any VP. Is this an extension of the unitary claim? Is there any fact to back his assertion up? I suppose this is a bit of a GQ, but I’m sure there’s many sides to it, so I put it here. I think Cheney’s claim is that the President has authorized him, using an executive order, to declassify information. I would imagine that power is within the President’s purview to grant. The extent to which Cheney would be authorized to declassify outside the normal procedures of declassification is a very good question. Whether a leak of otherwise classified material -without any other process being followed -would be considered legit is I suppose the central question. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800/3 "2006-02-16T16:07:11Z")
I don’t know if he does, but the President certain can declassify whatever he pleases, and I’d be comfortable with him extending that ability to other top officials (the law may say differently, I don’t know). However, there still should be a procedure to these things. He can’t simply blurt things out. Since neither the CIA nor Plame herself seemed aware of the change in her status, I think it’s safe to say that this information was not declassified properly. Regardless of the law, there’s still a debate to be had as to the wisdom of the leaks. I argue that releasing this information was unethical political bullying and potentially damaging to US intelligence interests. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800/4 "2006-02-16T16:18:18Z")
Would there be a papertrail to the declassifications? It seems to have come up on Fitzgerald’s radar, and one would think that it wouldn’t have if the administration just showed him the paperwork and let Fitz know that all the T’s were crossed and the I’s dotted. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800/5 "2006-02-16T16:19:57Z")
I’m inclined to grant that he has the authority, but as used in the Valerie Plame incident it is clearly a misuse of that power and he should be held liable for that. The local police officer has the authority to make a local determination as to whether or not you’re exhibiting signs of drunkenness when you drive, and to pull you over for it, but if you are **a)** demonstrably sober and **b)** the new boyfriend of the girl who ditched the police officer last month, hard questions need to be asked. If Cheney had Libby out Plame as payback for Plame’s husband sticking pins in the administration’s claims about Hussein’s alleged nuclear yellowcake, his authority to classify was abused and his act is still inexcusable. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800/6 "2006-02-16T17:06:32Z")
**AHunter3** nailed it. My thoughts exactly. As I understand it, Cheney claimed the power to declassify on the basis of a relatively recent executive order (still itself classified). Given the relationship between this President and this Vice President, I would be surprised if Bush _hadn’t_ given Cheney that authority. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800/7 "2006-02-16T17:28:28Z")
> [@Elendil's Heir](#): > > **AHunter3** nailed it. My thoughts exactly. > > As I understand it, Cheney claimed the power to declassify on the basis of a relatively recent executive order (still itself classified). Given the relationship between this President and this Vice President, I would be surprised if Bush _hadn’t_ given Cheney that authority. ok… I want to make sure I got this straight… There is a classified order that gives him the right to declassify information, and he just declassified the classified order by stating it’s existence. Or is it a 'really, trust me, there is a classified order giving me this ability, but I can’t disclose that, as it is classified" Seems rather a circular argument to me… ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800/8 "2006-02-16T17:29:03Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > Would there be a papertrail to the declassifications? It seems to have come up on Fitzgerald’s radar, and one would think that it wouldn’t have if the administration just showed him the paperwork and let Fitz know that all the T’s were crossed and the I’s dotted. Yeah, this investigation has been going on for years at no doubt a considerable cost to taxpayers (not to mention Libby’s career and Bush’s approval ratings). If Plame’s status had been declassifed by Cheney, then no laws were broken, the whole thing has been pointless, and the WH really should’ve mentioned this lot earlier. Since they didn’t mention it back when the investigation started, I gotta belive that Plame’s work was still classified. So best guess: Cheney’s just throwing up smoke to confuse the issue, Plame’s identity was classified at the time Libby leaked it. The question of whether or not Cheney _could_ declassify the information or not if he wanted to is moot, he didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800/9 "2006-02-16T18:55:19Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I’m inclined to grant that he has the authority, but as used in the Valerie Plame incident it is clearly a misuse of that power and he should be held liable for that. And you know this, how? > [@](#): > > If Cheney had Libby out Plame as payback for Plame’s husband sticking pins in the administration’s claims about Hussein’s alleged nuclear yellowcake, his authority to classify was abused and his act is still inexcusable. That’s a law that is almost impossible to prosecute. You will never be able to prove it. Still, Fitzgerald has not closed the investigation, so it’s not like there needs to be some new effort. If he can nail Cheney, he will. But I’ll take any bets that he won’t be able to. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800/10 "2006-02-16T18:58:03Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > And you know this, how? What possible legitimate reason could there have been? Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800/11 "2006-02-16T19:25:41Z")
I just heard two pundits (Franken and Oliphant) saying that the executive order referred to gave the Veep the power to **classify** documents, not **declassify** them. I obviously don’t take things like that at face value; does anyone have any details on this claim? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800/12 "2006-02-16T20:10:21Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > What possible legitimate reason could there have been? Seriously. For starters, we don’t even know that he did it. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800/13 "2006-02-16T21:06:54Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > For starters, we don’t even know that he did it. Oh, you were disputing whether he did it or not. I had thought you were accepting **AHunter’s** hypothetical that he did it and were questioning how he could know that it was clearly an abuse of power. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800/14 "2006-02-19T00:11:12Z")
> [@Elendil's Heir](#): > > **AHunter3** nailed it. My thoughts exactly. > > As I understand it, Cheney claimed the power to declassify on the basis of a relatively recent executive order (still itself classified). Given the relationship between this President and this Vice President, I would be surprised if Bush _hadn’t_ given Cheney that authority. I believe cheney reluctantly relinquished to bush the authority to declassify when Bush won it in a game of liar’s dice; ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800/15 "2006-02-19T00:28:50Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > I just heard two pundits (Franken and Oliphant) saying that the executive order referred to gave the Veep the power to **classify** documents, not **declassify** them. I obviously don’t take things like that at face value; does anyone have any details on this claim? > > Daniel doesn’t the one imply the other? At least vis-a-vis the particular items that Cheney himself classified; arguably, depending upon the wording of the exec order, the declassification authority might be subsumed under some weasal words. I’m still absorbing the fact (previously unknown to me) that the whole damn classification structure is without legislative underpinning of any sort. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800/16 "2006-02-19T01:31:24Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > I just heard two pundits (Franken and Oliphant) saying that the executive order referred to gave the Veep the power to **classify** documents, not **declassify** them. I obviously don’t take things like that at face value; does anyone have any details on this claim? > > Daniel That would seem strange to me. That seems like that’d be a questionable kind of authority to give a Vice President. While an E.O. giving the VP power to declassify makes some sense as a public figure the VP probably should be able to talk about classified matters on the record if he decides there is justification. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800/17 "2006-02-19T03:00:25Z")
Cheney is declasse, so… ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800/18 "2006-02-19T03:42:41Z")
Don’t you guys get it? It’s finally come down to this: IOKIARDI “A Republican”=“any Republican” “It” = “anything” Cheney is a Republican, declassifying is something, therefore it’s OK. No big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800/19 "2006-02-20T19:46:05Z")
In [this article](http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200602160841.asp), there is reference made to the comment made by Cheney to Hume. > [@](#): > > Cheney was referring to Executive Order 13292, issued by President Bush on March 25, 2003, which dealt with the handling of classified material. That order was not an entirely new document but was, instead, an amendment to an earlier Executive Order, number 12958, issued by President Bill Clinton on April 17, 1995. There are references within the linked article that point to the increased power that has been granted to the V.P. during the current administration. I don’t know if the definition of “classification” also includes “declassification”. It really shouldn’t; _classifying_ something may fall under the category of erring on the side of caution, but _declassifying_ may have ramifications on a number of other classified items and deserves considerable investigation by intelligence agencies. However, they may be legally inextricable. If the quoted information and date is correct, it would appear that the Order predates the Plame outing. Whether the outing fell within _“the Vice President in the performance of executive duties”_ is dubious (other than covering Scooter’s backside). It is interesting, however, that the issuance of this Executive Order was not long after Wilson broke ranks with the administration and vocalized his disapproval. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800/20 "2006-02-20T21:19:47Z")
Regardless of whether this order actually gives Cheney the power to declassify or not, does “declassifying” something simply mean deciding that a given piece of information can become public knowledge, or does it involve an accepted procedure (such as informing Ms. Plame’s superiors that her work was about to go public)? Because if it is the latter, then that procedure was certainly not followed, if Ms. Plame’s superiors’ own protestations are any indication. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-cheney-have-the-power-to-declassify/344800.md?page=2)