# Does Chicago's "Daley Machine" exist any more?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [December 16, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422 "2008-12-16T17:51:52Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422/1 "2008-12-16T17:51:52Z")
I had thought that all of America’s [urban political machines](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_machine#Political_machines_in_the_United_States) had passed from the scene decades ago, but in discussions of the [Blagojevich scandal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Blagojevich_federal_fraud_cases), everybody seems to assume that there still is a “Daley Machine” (and that Blagojevich is in some way a product of it – and possibly Obama too, or at least some of his inner circle). Is there still a “Daley Machine,” or is this just an instance of collective memory casting a long shadow?
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422/2 "2008-12-16T18:34:26Z")
No, the machine’s still there. It sort of fragmented after Daley Sr. died, but Daley the Younger has managed to reunify the party, and it’s living up to its reputation (the Stroger “inheritance” and all of Todd Stroger’s patronage, the hired truck program, the Tomczak bribery case, the Sorich trial, etc.)
Chicago’s not the only machine city, of course, just the most notorious.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2008, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422/3 "2008-12-16T22:00:19Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#):
>
> No, the machine’s still there. It sort of fragmented after Daley Sr. died, but Daley the Younger has managed to reunify the party, and it’s living up to its reputation (the Stroger “inheritance” and all of Todd Stroger’s patronage, the hired truck program, the Tomczak bribery case, the Sorich trial, etc.)
>
> Chicago’s not the only machine city, of course, just the most notorious.
So, does Blagojevich have any connection with it? Or Obama, or anybody on Obama’s team?
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422/4 "2008-12-16T22:03:52Z")
Umm yes.
> **[Richard M. Daley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_M._Daley)**
>
> Richard Michael Daley (born April 24, 1942) is an American politician who served as the 54th mayor of Chicago, Illinois, from 1989 to 2011. Daley was elected mayor in 1989 and was reelected five times until declining to run for a seventh term. At 22 years, his was the longest tenure in Chicago mayoral history, surpassing the 21-year stay of his father, Richard J. Daley.
> As Mayor, Daley took over the Chicago Public Schools, developed tourism, oversaw the construction of Millennium Park, incr...
54th Mayor of Chicago
Incumbent
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### Author:  [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422/5 "2008-12-16T22:06:40Z")
Gosh yes, it is still very strong.
Check the records of how long it has been since Daley did not get his way on any matter he really wanted. Heck, I may be mistaken but my understanding is that his budgets generally pass unanimously on voice vote.
What proportion of the City Council is made up of Dems? Also, the real power is exercised on the precinct committeeman level, and by the county.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422/6 "2008-12-16T22:13:41Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#):
>
> What proportion of the City Council is made up of Dems?
But, are all Dem officeholders in Chicago necessarily part of the Machine? (As distinct from the party.)
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422/7 "2008-12-16T22:20:08Z")
No. The current Daley is powerful but not like his old man was. He is powerful as someone who has allies and has been able to convince more often than not.
And Blagojevich has been despised by Daley and even by his father-in-law who has been part of Chicago politics for a long time.
Lastly, no, there are many aldermen and office holders who are not beholden to Daley. They just rarely win.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2008, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422/8 "2008-12-17T01:01:32Z")
> [@DSeid](#):
>
> And Blagojevich has been despised by Daley and even by his father-in-law who has been part of Chicago politics for a long time.
So, his scandal has **nothing to do** with the Daley Machine?
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2008, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422/9 "2008-12-17T01:07:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> So, his scandal has **nothing to do** with the Daley Machine?
Not really. He’s Dick Mell’s son in law, so he’s more connected with that power base, although Mell and Blago aren’t getting along anymore, and Mell gets along with Daley the Younger a lot better than he got along with his father.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422/10 "2008-12-17T02:09:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> So, his scandal has **nothing to do** with the Daley Machine?
Nothing other than that it shows the limits of Daley’s power. Daley had no control over Blagojevich. [This](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/16/daley-calls-blago-cuckoo_n_126771.html) is a good example of their relationship.
> [@](#):
>
> “Mayor Daley made it dramatically clear Monday what he thinks of recent accusations from Gov. Blagojevich that the city is to blame for a potential CTA fare hike,” the Sun-Times reports.
>
> “‘Cuckoo,’ Daley said in a high-pitched voice.”
Daley at least is a pretty good diagnostician!
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### Author:  [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2008, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422/11 "2008-12-17T05:47:19Z")
Daley wants a gambling license. He wants a casino in Chicago. Blago expected Daley to pay for the gambling license. Daley says, like fun I will. Chicago does not have a casino yet.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2008, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422/12 "2008-12-17T13:54:34Z")
> [@lee](#):
>
> Daley wants a gambling license. He wants a casino in Chicago. Blago expected Daley to pay for the gambling license. Daley says, like fun I will. Chicago does not have a casino yet.
😕 Does the governor even have the authority to issue a casino license in a state where (I believe) casino gambling is generally illegal outside an Indian reservation?
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### Author:  [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422/13 "2008-12-17T14:44:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> 😕 Does the governor even have the authority to issue a casino license in a state where (I believe) casino gambling is generally illegal outside an Indian reservation?
Casino gambling is not illegal in Illinois. The only requirement is that the casino has to be on a “riverboat” (which are no longer required to go anywhere, but just sit there). State law allows for the issuance of ten casino licenses, and there are currently IIRC only nine casinos operating in the state. Which means there is another license available, but so far no one has been able to acquire. I seem to remember that Rosemont was trying to get one a few years back, but can’t remember exactly why that bid fell through.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422/14 "2008-12-17T18:22:35Z")
The point is that the old Daley machine was absolute in its power - based on patronage and payola. Daley the younger has the power that comes with having most voters overwhelmingly approving of the job you’ve done and having given appropriate respect to various different power bases.
Don’t get me wrong, Illinois and Chicago still have their share of corruption (even if we aren’t actually even close to number one) - but those corruption episodes mostly have been in the ranks of other power bases than Daley’s - some opposition aldermen, the Governor’s office (again and again both parties),- and has rarely gotten too close to Daley himself.
The connection that there is between Blago and the Daley Machine is to the old machine - Blago got his start working for a vestige of the old Machine - “Fast Eddy” Vrdolyak. He learned those ways as a role model to aspire to.
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### Author:  [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422/15 "2008-12-17T20:33:58Z")
> [@DSeid](#):
>
> The connection that there is between Blago and the Daley Machine is to the old machine - Blago got his start working for a vestige of the old Machine - “Fast Eddy” Vrdolyak. He learned those ways as a role model to aspire to.
Blago did work for Daley early on:
> [@wikipedia](#):
>
> Blagojevich then took a job as Cook County Assistant State’s Attorney (assistant prosecutor) under State’s Attorney Richard M. Daley,[15] specializing in domestic abuse crimes and felony weapons cases.
I’m not arguing a point here; just think it is a interesting fact.
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### Author:  [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2008, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422/16 "2008-12-18T03:57:58Z")
O.K. so now it starts making more sense to me. Blago worked for Vrdolyak early in his career. That explains the tone and language in those taped converstations - the whole idea of someone having to line his pockets with cash to get a deal made. Much more Vrdolyak’s style than Daley’s.
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### Author:  [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2008, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422/17 "2008-12-18T06:11:41Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#):
>
> Casino gambling is not illegal in Illinois. The only requirement is that the casino has to be on a “riverboat” (which are no longer required to go anywhere, but just sit there). State law allows for the issuance of ten casino licenses, and there are currently IIRC only nine casinos operating in the state. Which means there is another license available, but so far no one has been able to acquire. I seem to remember that Rosemont was trying to get one a few years back, but can’t remember exactly why that bid fell through.
As I recall, at least one Rosemont bid was tainted by connection to organized crime. There was a study done to see where the last casino would be best placed, and the answer was murky.
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### Author:  [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2008, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422/18 "2008-12-18T06:19:53Z")
Shortly after I moved to Chicagoland in 1995, there began an investigation into ghost payroll in Chicago. There have been federal corruption probes ever since and every once in a while they announce some new corruption. Operation Silver Shovel is one such probe, IIRC. In all this time, they have not even got very close to Daley AFAICT, and after he took bulldozers to the little airport on Northerly Island, he certainly had motivated enemies. I have not heard very specific allegations about any specific way that Daley is corrupt except allegations of bias in handing out contracts, and even those were fairly vague. I did not hear which contracts or who got them.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2008, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422/19 "2008-12-18T14:25:28Z")
> [@lee](#):
>
> As I recall, at least one Rosemont bid was tainted by connection to organized crime.
Yeah, that’s another thing . . . What connections are there, or were there, between the Daley Machine and the [Chicago Outfit](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Outfit)? (I have a friend from Illinois who is absolutely convinced Obama is Mob-owned, just because he comes from Chicago and every important pol there is Mob-owned.)
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2008, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chicagos-daley-machine-exist-any-more/477422/20 "2008-12-18T14:49:58Z")
Well we still have people who visit and are disappointed not to see Capone types running around with tommy guns.
No, I know of no credible links between Daley and Organized Crime. Now Cicero and Berwyn have had lots of serious allegations. And some suggestions of ties have been an issue with a gaming license for Rosemont. But not Daley. I think even Daley the elder was not tied up with them (that I’ve heard of).