# Does Chinese astrology have any validity? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2003, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638 "2003-07-01T19:29:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638/1 "2003-07-01T19:29:39Z")
My ex-GF, who is of Chinese descent, believes wholeheartedly in Chinese astrology and makes many of her decisions based on it. She’s not stupid either - she’s an engineer who is pretty smart about most things. So I couldn’t understand why she’d accept Chinese astrology so much, apart from her upbringing. But in her opinion, while Western astrology is nonsense, Chinese astrology has a scientific basis, something to do with numbers (?) and the repetition of traits or … She was never really clear about it to be honest, but she thought it true. Does anyone else have an argument for how Chinese astrology could possibly work? ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638/2 "2003-07-01T20:03:12Z")
Chinese astrology is just as valid as western astrology. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638/3 "2003-07-01T20:32:32Z")
Exactly. It’s also just as valid as numerology, palmistry, and throwing pasta against the wall. And don’t forget [the always enlightening horoscopes from The Onion!](http://www.theonion.com/onion3924/horoscopes_3924.html) ---
**Author:** ![Insecta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3da27b/32.png) [@Insecta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Insecta)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638/4 "2003-07-01T21:05:18Z")
The Chinese astrology system I am familiar with involves twelve animals. Every person born within the same Chinese year (roughly a western year) will have the identical ruling animal. I acknowledge that there are deeper intricacies to this system, but the ruling animal is what dominates you. This clearly explains why two thirds of the people in my class at school have a suspiciously similar personality to me. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638/5 "2003-07-01T21:26:14Z")
It does sound less silly, but it has no more scientific merit. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Curtains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c57346/32.png) [@Black\_Curtains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Black_Curtains)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638/6 "2003-07-01T21:38:13Z")
This is just my opinion, not based on anything but personal experiences. I’ve learned that all astrology is a 50/50 situation. Sometimes it can be right on the money, other times it’s completely wrong. I think it’s validity depends on the person recieving it, and who’s giving it. Just like with anything else, there’s people who are great at it, and some who just plain suck. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638/7 "2003-07-01T21:59:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Black Curtains \* > **I’ve learned that all astrology is a 50/50 situation.** Not really… > [@](#): > > **I think it’s validity depends on the person recieving it, and who’s giving it.** That much is true. The more gullible the reciever, the more likely they are to see some random occurance as being related to the astrological prediction they were given. And the more vague the one making the prediction is, the more likely they are to come up with something that the gullible person is able to map onto regular, every-day experiences, no matter _what_ happens. Astrology is no different from any other method that professes to be able to predict the future. Astrology (Chinese or oterwise), Numerology, Tarot cards, reading tea leaves, . . . they’re all a bunch of superstitions with no grounding in reality. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638/8 "2003-07-01T22:54:00Z")
> [@](#): > > The Chinese astrology system I am familiar with involves twelve animals. My mother-in-law was very much into this, and I learned a little. To expand, 12 animals and 5 “elements” making a 60-year cycle, which is why one’s 60th birthday is such a big thing. Oh yeah…also, all women born in the year of the “fiery horse” are supposed to be insane. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638/9 "2003-07-01T23:25:10Z")
_Short answer:_ No. _Long answer:_ It has as much validity as Western astrology – which is, none. If Chinese astrology was valid, then _everyone_ born in the same year you were would have the same personality, tastes, preferences, and behavior quirks you do. I seriously doubt this is the case. ---
**Author:** ![fruitbat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@fruitbat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fruitbat)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638/10 "2003-07-01T23:47:29Z")
Chinese astrology seems even sillier than Western astrology if such a thing is possible. From my understanding it assigns traits to all those born in a certain year. Fer Chrissakes you only have to remember high school to know that can’t be true. At least Western astrology seeks to give every individual the feeling that they are uniquely effected by the particular planetary alignment on the day of their birth. They are both useless, but the Chinese version seems transparently so. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638/11 "2003-07-02T00:27:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > **Exactly. It’s also just as valid as numerology, palmistry, and throwing pasta against the wall.** _Do not dismiss the power of Pasta Reading so lightly!_ ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638/12 "2003-07-02T01:11:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bizzwire \* > \*\*Oh yeah…also, all women born in the year of the “fiery horse” are supposed to be insane. \*\* Which would be '66-'67 for anyone who is interested. - Apollyon (a male Fire Horse) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638/13 "2003-07-02T02:37:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > **_Long answer:_ It has as much validity as Western astrology – which is, none.** Ah-ha! So you admit that it has ten or even a hundred times more credibility than Western astrology. ---
**Author:** ![Rabid\_Squirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Rabid\_Squirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rabid_Squirrel)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638/14 "2003-07-02T03:00:21Z")
Yeah, it’s just one of those things that people like my mum points out. “Ohh !! She’s a Tiger sign! She’s going to find it very had to marry!” Thanks mum, I can see for myself she’s arguementative and Evil Incarnate :rolleyes: Although come to think of it, my East/West astrology signs are the sheep (or goat) and aquarius respectively, which would make me a walking doormat. Or a civil servant. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638/15 "2003-07-02T03:12:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SciFiSam \* > My ex-GF, who is of Chinese descent, believes wholeheartedly in Chinese astrology and makes many of her decisions based on it. And does it work? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SciFiSam \* > She’s not stupid either Just gullible. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SciFiSam \* > But in her opinion, while Western astrology is nonsense, Chinese astrology has a scientific basis,… Like gravity or calculus! > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SciFiSam \* > something to do with numbers (?) and the repetition of traits or … She was never really clear about it to be honest, but she thought it true. Yes, I can see why that’s a scientific theory. :rolleyes Presumably astrologers charge her money for readings - and of course that’s also a sign that it’s science, not a con. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SciFiSam \* > Does anyone else have an argument for how Chinese astrology could possibly work? Since she doesn’t have an argument, why do you say ‘anyone else’? Anyway of course it works … for the astrologer. That’ll be $100, please. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638/16 "2003-07-02T10:23:00Z")
> [@](#): > > To expand, 12 animals and 5 “elements” making a 60-year cycle, which is why one’s 60th birthday is such a big thing. Exactly. I’m a wood rabbit, although in some parts of the world it’s called a cat (in Vietnam for example, because they didn’t have rabbits), and then the horoscope changes to take on the characteristics of a cat. > [@](#): > > And does it work? She reckons it does. Her mother has guided her whole family - her kids’ career decisions and all - using astrology. But then again, we were perfectly matched according to her astrology, and that ended horribly. > [@](#): > > Just gullible. I wouldn’t condemn her as gullible as quickly as I would a Westerner following this kind of astrology. It is much more pervasive in China than Western astrology ever has been here, and the kids are brought up with it almost on a par with religion. (At least, that’s how it is for the Hong Kong Chinese people that I know). She hasn’t come to this belief as an adult, like Westerners would, but was inculcated from childhood. Westerners would have to take on this belief - she would have to _reject_ it. > [@](#): > > Presumably astrologers charge her money for readings - and of course that’s also a sign that it’s science, not a con. It’s mostly done by her Mum, who also has a ‘guru’ - whom I don’t think she actually pays. > [@](#): > > Since she doesn’t have an argument, why do you say ‘anyone else’? You’re right, I should have left the ‘else’ out. I feel like I’m defending this now. I don’t mean to - I don’t believe in the thing myself. I find it interesting, the same way I find religion interesting even though I’m an atheist. I don’t dismiss religion out of hand, and I don’t dismiss this out of hand either. It just seems to me that the believers in Chinese astrology must have some way of rationalising it, and non-believers might well be able to think of ways to make it seem more logical too. I can’t think of one myself. Can anyone? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638/17 "2003-07-02T20:04:04Z")
Does anyone _seriously_ believe in Chinese astrology? Even among my own family members, the only time Chinese astrology gets mentioned is as a lighthearted conversation topic, not something to live your life by, the way some folks take Western astrology. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638/18 "2003-07-02T20:09:37Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t dismiss religion out of hand, and I don’t dismiss this out of hand either. What reason do you have NOT to dismiss it? The fact that it’s a popular folk superstition (since you mentioned it’s so widespread in China) doesn’t give it any actual credibility. My grandmother says that thinking too much gives you wrinkles. Other women her age say that, too. It’s still moronic no matter how many people say it. > [@](#): > > It just seems to me that the believers in Chinese astrology must have some way of rationalising it, and non-believers might well be able to think of ways to make it seem more logical too. I can’t think of one myself. Can anyone? I’m sure _believers_ can tell you why it’s more logical. That doesn’t mean it’s actually true. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638/19 "2003-07-03T12:30:51Z")
I don’t really buy the whole astrology thing, Western or Chinese, but I have noticed something that makes me wonder. My mother’s taught school for 30 years, and she’s often mentioned that classes tend to have their own distinct personalities. That is, there’ll be a year where they’re mostly pretty good kids, with no real troublemakers or exceptionally slow ones, followed by a year where they’re mostly pretty bright but perfect hellions, followed by a year where they tend to behave well but are bone-idle, followed by a year where they all seem to be dumb as posts. She says it’s like there’s something in the water all the pregnant women are drinking any given year, and whatever it is changes year to year. She’s never kept track of the personalities of succeeding classes, but it does seem to be somewhat cyclical in nature. Does anyone have any explanations for this? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638/20 "2003-07-03T12:33:46Z")
I’d say that the personalities and behavior of the kids affect each other. Especially the most vocal students. If you’re in a class without a ‘class clown,’ things will be more serious. Also, keep in mind that in a class, the kids have probably known each other for years. It’s not as if they just get randomly thrown together and come out the same. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-chinese-astrology-have-any-validity/185638.md?page=2)