# Does crime pay? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 29, 2002, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-crime-pay/130153 "2002-09-29T22:14:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Adam\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Adam\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Adam_P)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-crime-pay/130153/1 "2002-09-29T22:14:59Z")
I’m one of those people who roots for the bad guys in the movies. It’s always bothered me that non-violent criminals are so demonized in Hollywood’s tendentious little morality-plays. The message of Hollywood and televison crime dramas is a facile, Calvinistic message of “Crime does not pay. Because the criminal and the crime is essentially evil, he will always be caught and the crime will always be punished”. There is almost no variation on this. Shows like “Cops” and those John Walsh reality TV shows strike me as exercises in propaganda for the police and the criminal justice system. You will only rarely see a suspect escape or successfully resist capture. The police are often depicted as having an almost superhuman ability to detect and punish evil-doers, which certainly fits the comic-book ideological template that seems to inform these shows. As in comic-books like Spider-man and Batman, the ideological message is clear: “Resistance is futile. Every crime will be punished”. Of course, you never see the police roughing up suspects in these shows which is odd since I’ve personally witnessd the police beating the shit out of people on 3 occasions. Just once I’d like to see “America’s Craziest Police Brutality Videos!”. Anyway, enough digressions. My question is: Of the total number of crimes commited, how many are actually solved? ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-crime-pay/130153/2 "2002-09-29T22:45:15Z")
Considering that we don’t know about the crimes that aren’t reported, I don’t think this is really answerable. How many are there that we never heard of? Are you going to include every petty theft, etc? ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-crime-pay/130153/3 "2002-09-29T23:26:30Z")
Does crime pay? If you’re not racked with guilt over it and you don’t get caught I’d have to say, yes. I wouldn’t use “Sheriff” John Bunell’s show as a good example. I generally **do** think that the police are the good guys, but a cop will step over a curb on that show and they’ll repeat it 4 times in slow motion with Bunell shouting: \*\*\* “only quick reflexes and years of experience allowed the officer to narrowly dodge such a dangerous and deadly obstacle and not succumb to the relentless pull of the Earth’s gravity!”\*\*\* P.S. John Bunell had a tiny part as an office manager in the film **Ghostworld** and in the credits he’s still listed as “ **Sheriff** John Bunell”! ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-crime-pay/130153/4 "2002-09-29T23:30:11Z")
We should just put the Government in charge of crime. Then it wouldn’t pay at all. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-crime-pay/130153/5 "2002-09-30T00:06:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cardinal \* > \*\*Considering that we don’t know about the crimes that aren’t reported, I don’t think this is really answerable. How many are there that we never heard of? Are you going to include every petty theft, etc? \*\* Certainly, there have to be statistics about what percentage of reported crimes are solved. With some crimes, such as car theft, it seems like the criminals are rarely ever caught, while it would seem as if most murders are eventually solved. BTW, I always cringe when I hear statistics like “2 out of every 3 sexual assaults go unreported.” If they went unreported, then how do you know about them? Usually, these statistics turn out to be total WAG’s. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-crime-pay/130153/6 "2002-09-30T02:26:57Z")
_“Of course crime pays. If crime didn’t pay there wouldn’t be any crime”_ **G. Gordon Liddy** ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-crime-pay/130153/7 "2002-09-30T02:29:52Z")
\*“Of course crime pays, or there’d be no crime.” \* G. Gordon Liddy ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-crime-pay/130153/8 "2002-09-30T02:31:59Z")
😃 ---
**Author:** ![Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ebca7d/32.png) [@Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Violet)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-crime-pay/130153/9 "2002-09-30T06:51:27Z")
It looks like it paid a bunch of white collar criminals pretty well. > [@](#): > > Of the total number of crimes commited, how many are actually solved? Depends on the jurisdiction, and who’s doing the reporting. _The Jordan Times_ reported that 92.7% of the crimes committed in 2001 were solved. See: [http://www.jordanembassyus.org/04292002003.htm](http://www.jordanembassyus.org/04292002003.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-crime-pay/130153/10 "2002-09-30T12:00:34Z")
Call me a cynic, but that report in the Jordan times sounds like it was typed up by the King’s propaganda department. To paraphrase, “Everything is great in Jordan: better than 90% of criminals are caught, and crime rates per capita are nice and steady.” Back in the '80’s, I remember hearing a police officer assert that the majority of crimes go unsolved (with “solved” defined as a conviction for someone for that crime.) ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-crime-pay/130153/11 "2002-09-30T15:39:46Z")
“Does crime pay?” Too simplistic a question. Are you talking about individual crimes, or crime as a lifestyle? For career criminals, or desperate, stupid losers (junkies, for instance) who just need money and will do anything to get it? It makes a big difference, you know. Now, the OP probably knows this already, but the glamorous, “cool,” professional criminals we see in movies bear very little resemblance to real criminals we’re actaully likely to encounter. There aren’t many Thomas Crowns stealing million dollar paintings from museums; there aren’t many Auric Goldfingers looking to knock over Fort Knox; and there aren’t many professional hit men who sip cocktails on the Riviera when they aren’t carrying out high-tech assassinations for $10 million a pop. In reality, most thieves and killers are morons, not master planners. Now, even a moron carrying out penny-ante robberies or mugings is likely to escape capture for a while. A junkie who needs money and snatches purses to feed his drug habit is likely to get away with his crimes for a while. Weeks, months, maybe eve a few years. But he isn’t going to get rich (how much can he make? A few hundred dollars at a time, maybe? How long can that last?), and if he does it for very long, he will almost certainly get busted for it. If he manages to steal enough to support his drug habit for a year, then gets arreested and serves 2 years in prison, did his crime “pay”? I guess, but not very well, and not for very long. But what about the “professional” crooks? Consider a guy who makes a career or armed robbery. Is he likely to get away with his first liquor store or convenience store holdup? Sure. Is he likely to get away with several such holdups? Sure. To that extent, crime probably WILL “pay.” But (and this is a major but!), he isn’t likely to get much money (contrary to what you see in movies, even major bank heists usually net the robbers only a few thousand bucks). Certainly not enough money to live in luxury. Heck, not even enough to live a comfortable, middle-class lifestyle for more than a few months. So, a robber has to commit a LOT of crimes to make much money, and the more crimes he commits, the greater the certainty he’ll eventually get caught and do hard time. In movies, you ALWAYS see career criminals who dream of pulling off “one, last BIG caper,” the one that will net him millions of bucks, and let him move to Tahiti and retire. In reality, that kind of thing never happens. No burglar or stickup man ever makes that kind of money and lives to enjoy it. Crime pays well enough, often enough, that many people think it makes sense to make a career of it. But as a way to get rich, it’s not even as good as buying lottery tickets. ---
**Author:** ![Adam\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Adam\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Adam_P)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-crime-pay/130153/12 "2002-09-30T19:53:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astorian \* > \*\*“Does crime pay?” Too simplistic a question. > > Are you talking about individual crimes, or crime as a lifestyle? > > For career criminals, or desperate, stupid losers (junkies, for instance) who just need money and will do anything to get it? > > It makes a big difference, you know. > > Now, the OP probably knows this already, but the glamorous, “cool,” professional criminals we see in movies bear very little resemblance to real criminals we’re actaully likely to encounter. There aren’t many Thomas Crowns stealing million dollar paintings from museums; there aren’t many Auric Goldfingers looking to knock over Fort Knox; and there aren’t many professional hit men who sip cocktails on the Riviera when they aren’t carrying out high-tech assassinations for $10 million a pop. In reality, most thieves and killers are morons, not master planners. > > Now, even a moron carrying out penny-ante robberies or mugings is likely to escape capture for a while. A junkie who needs money and snatches purses to feed his drug habit is likely to get away with his crimes for a while. Weeks, months, maybe eve a few years. But he isn’t going to get rich (how much can he make? A few hundred dollars at a time, maybe? How long can that last?), and if he does it for very long, he will almost certainly get busted for it. > > If he manages to steal enough to support his drug habit for a year, then gets arreested and serves 2 years in prison, did his crime “pay”? I guess, but not very well, and not for very long. > > But what about the “professional” crooks? > > Consider a guy who makes a career or armed robbery. Is he likely to get away with his first liquor store or convenience store holdup? Sure. Is he likely to get away with several such holdups? Sure. To that extent, crime probably WILL “pay.” But (and this is a major but!), he isn’t likely to get much money (contrary to what you see in movies, even major bank heists usually net the robbers only a few thousand bucks). Certainly not enough money to live in luxury. Heck, not even enough to live a comfortable, middle-class lifestyle for more than a few months. > > So, a robber has to commit a LOT of crimes to make much money, and the more crimes he commits, the greater the certainty he’ll eventually get caught and do hard time. > > In movies, you ALWAYS see career criminals who dream of pulling off “one, last BIG caper,” the one that will net him millions of bucks, and let him move to Tahiti and retire. In reality, that kind of thing never happens. No burglar or stickup man ever makes that kind of money and lives to enjoy it. > > Crime pays well enough, often enough, that many people think it makes sense to make a career of it. But as a way to get rich, it’s not even as good as buying lottery tickets. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Adam\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Adam\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Adam_P)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2002, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-crime-pay/130153/13 "2002-09-30T20:31:49Z")
This is a reply to the above quote. I messed up before. 1. Simplistic question? The question “Does crime pay?” was a rhetorical one and not meant to be taken literally. A play on the old adage “Crime does not pay”. But the FBI has thousands of files on career criminals who seem to have no trouble making crime pay throughout their lives. 2. I’m not really interested in Thomas Crown-type evil geniuses but the felony and possession suspects depicted on Cops and reality TV shows. How accurate are these shows? Do these people get way with it more often than not? Considering that I jumped a turnstile nearly every day throughout High School and regularly bought drugs, as did most of my friends, how accurate could they be? 3. The popular demonization of felons and drug addicts in movies and television is having serious consequences for the prison and criminal justice systems. Of the 2 million incarcerated persons in the U.S.–the largest # in the world–60% are non-violent drug offenders, like the ones depicted on Cops, and the mandatory sentence of these offenders often exceeds the mandatory sentence imposed on rapists and murderers. In the past 10 years 21 new prisons have been built in California and only 1 new university (These statistics are from [www.drugwarfacts.org/drugwar](http://www.drugwarfacts.org/drugwar)). This why I’m pro-drug legalization. So cop-propaganda shows like these do indeed have an impact. I’m not saying television and movies are dictating our criminal and penal laws but, as the world’s most influential mediums, they can fabricate a view of social reality that creates the kind of hysterical mindset that allows “3 Strikes”-type legislation to be passed. People generally believe what they see on televison. ---
**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2002, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-crime-pay/130153/14 "2002-10-01T01:11:23Z")
Adam, it seems to me that you’re conflating a number of different aspects of crime, and that the thread title doesn’t have much to do with your actual questions. I mean, first it’s “does crime pay?”, then it’s “Of the total number of crimes commited, how many are actually solved?”, then it’s “How accurate are [Cops type] shows?”, now we’re off into whether we should legalize drugs. To answer your second question, you have to first define “crime”. Does it mean any act that is technically against the law? So anytime someone buys some marijuana, that’s one crime. Taking it home is another crime (possession, right?) Sitting in your living room smoking it is probably a third crime (using, right?) Heck, that means everytime someone drives a car at least one mile an hour over the posted speed limit, that’s a crime. And if that’s the definition, the vast, vast majority of “crimes” go unreported and “unsolved”. What does “Does crime pay?” mean? Is it just a count of how many people commit “crimes” and are never caught? Or, as most people have been answering, does it mean is it possible for someone to make a living at illegal activities and never be caught? Your question number 2 above is really pretty much a non-sequiter. Shows like Cops can only show what they film, duh, and so obviously they’ll show the police engaged in making stops and catching suspects. It’s pretty hard to show the police not catching the person who committed that crime but is then never spotted, or not pulling over that car that they don’t see that matches the description of the one used on last night’s robbery. Frankly, it disturbs me that the tone of your postings is that most police are bad and most criminals are just peace-loving drug users.