# Does female virginity really have any true sacredness or social importance anymore? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 15, 2003, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655 "2003-07-15T14:27:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/1 "2003-07-15T14:27:43Z")
In older societies the notion of maintaining virginity (or at least the appearance of it) was often seen as vitally important for young women. This is no longer the case and I think the holding of one’s virginity as a special thing is becoming more and more meaningless in modernity. I suppose a young woman’s maintenance of her virginity beyond the age of consent might still have some sentimental threshold value for her as an individual, but it seems that although many young girls claim to be “saving themselves” in some form or fashion, in most cases even for the more pious girls, this usually amounts to “saving myself for the first guy I think is really hot or will ask me out and is nice to me”. Penetrated - Not penetrated. With birth control and modern sexual attitudes what difference does it really make these days? You’re not going to get married or make babies if you engage in intercourse and getting penetrated does not assume some life long trust or committment on the part of either party. What difference does it really make these days physically, morally or socially if you are a virgin or not? ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/2 "2003-07-15T14:40:40Z")
The whole concept is hogwash. In “olden times” when birth control and knowledge of sexual transmitted diseases was hard to come by (pardon the pun) it made sense for everyone (women) to wait until they hook up for life. Now? It’s an overated social symbol. ---
**Author:** ![Mottpot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Mottpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mottpot)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/3 "2003-07-15T14:50:19Z")
I am a 20 year old female whose still a virgin and I am more often emabarassed of that fact rather than proud. It is not a choice that I have made, its just the situation I have ended up in. I feel its something maybe I should be proud of but I am not. I defenitely think that girls saving themselves has become less important. I often feel as if people think that there is something wrong with me because I have not had sex. I personally don’t know any girls who have saved themselves for marraige or that perfect somebody. You’re right, with all the forms of birth control and the knowledge and practices to prevent STDs, it has become less of a ‘big deal’. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/4 "2003-07-15T15:08:04Z")
Some Arabic & other countries value virginity quite a bit still. I don’t know about Americans. If a woman is a virgin when I meet her then I leave her that way. ---
**Author:** ![curly\_chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@curly\_chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curly_chick)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/5 "2003-07-15T15:08:30Z")
I think that almost all of the traditional world religions hold female virginity as sacred. If you live in a secular country you have the choice to follow your religion or not. Some people follow it to the letter, some follow their own, personal brand of religion _Lite_ and some eschew religion entirely. People in secular countries have that choice. If you live in a country where religion is mandatory, you can get stoned to death for immorality. ---
**Author:** ![chewbasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbe5ce/32.png) [@chewbasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chewbasta)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/6 "2003-07-15T15:15:35Z")
Any self respecting male pig would like an unbroken mare… but I don’t think we would like to do ALL of the training. I guess a good hummer is something to be thankful for, and not ask where this skill was aquired. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/7 "2003-07-15T15:18:28Z")
Don’t worry, **Mottpot**. I was 25 when I lost mine. An opportunity hadn’t presented itself up to that point. ---
**Author:** ![Tomcat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Tomcat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tomcat)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/8 "2003-07-15T15:29:48Z")
I’m assuming you are painting the broad brush on Western cultures, correct? Cuz from what little I know, it still holds much value in MENA and Asian societies. In Europe/USA/other westernized cultures I would argue that it only holds value with regards to religious mores. And those can be pretty strong ties in some areas, so they still need to be considered. However, outside of religion? Hmmm…I can’t really think of societal values being based on it anymore. But then again, think of Brittany- before Justin she kicked off a whole ‘virgin-conciousness’ that seemed to appeal to many teen girls, and not all of them were going to church every Sunday. The counter-side of the STD/AIDS issue is that although there is a lot of info on them, in practice many teen girls are not mature enough to say “OK, stop. Let’s get the condoms and lube out, and I’m sure I left a dental dam around here somewhere…oh, heck, I’ll just go get some seran-wrap. Be right back!” Thus holding onto ones virginity until you ARE mature enough to say that could be a good thing. So, the virginity itself doesn’t hold value, but the associated benefits do. And the pregnancy thing, well…Hmmm…There is something to be said about someone who doesn’t want to risk getting pregnant because they have a lifeplan that doesn’t include children for the next decade or two. Yes birthcontrol blahblahblah, but it can still happen. So, yeah, I guess I would say that I can respect a woman’s choice and decisions for remaining a virgin, and thus respect the concept of virginity itself. Does that reflect social importance if there are many people who would say the same? Quite possibly yes. But this would be a reflection of her choices, not for the completeness of her hymen. -Tcat ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/9 "2003-07-15T15:30:43Z")
Anybody remember [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=158182&highlight=virginity) thread? Oh yeah, good times. In the Western world, from my perspective, simply being a virgin will not afford a woman any more social opportunity than non-virginity. And, as demonstrated in the OP to that link, socially conservative people would surely like to see virginity come back into “style”, but I don’t think we’ll see that happen. I don’t think it should be a matter of “style” anyway. It should be a personal choice. There are people who would tell you that it’s somehow “abnormal” to wait to have sex, and that’s complete nonsense. It’s healthier to wait until you’ve found a situation in which you feel comfortable before having sex than to just do it because you don’t want to be the last virgin on the block. Likewise, I think it’s good to inform kids that abstinence is _an option_, but it’s stupid and harmful to pretend it’s the _only_ option. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/10 "2003-07-15T15:31:26Z")
OK. Women are supposed to remain virgins til they marry. Men can have as much sex as they like. Who are they having sex with? This pervading puritanical attitude is part of what keeps alive the ridiculous theory “there are women you fuck, and women you marry.” A man can have as much sex as he likes and still be considered a moral, decent person. A woman who enjoys sex and is confident and comfortable in her sexuality is impure, no matter how she conducts herself in all other aspects of her life. Yeah, that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![lachesis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@lachesis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lachesis)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/11 "2003-07-15T15:36:49Z")
while the current thinking that “saving oneself” until marriage may be somehow laughable nowadays, i can only hope that this hasn’t immediately translated into “lose it at the very first opportunity” instead. my personal opinion – getting involved in sex, as least as far as the human animal is concerned, really ought to be more than just a quick indulgence in hormones and physical equipment. in my own little world, i like to think that it does engage the emotional levels of both parties. (translation: it MEANS something to the people involved.) consequently, if the relationship ends for whatever reason, that also tends to mean that there is some emotional fallout in its wake. this, unfortunately, can range anywhere from hurt feelings to complete and utter devastation on one of the partners’ part. undertaking such an emotionally-risky enterprise is something that really ought to be postponed until the party(s) involved have developed some level of (emotional) maturity to be able to deal with any unfortunate aftermath. (quick translation: unless you’re ready to face and deal with possible instances of STDs, unwanted pregnancy, or the mere fact that there’s someone out there who simply wants to use your body without giving two s\*\*\*s about you as a person, you really ought to postpone being sexually active.) ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/12 "2003-07-15T15:42:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Maureen \* > \*\*OK. Women are supposed to remain virgins til they marry. Men can have as much sex as they like. Who are they having sex with? \*\* Married women? _rimshot_ ---
**Author:** ![Big-Ole-Steve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Big-Ole-Steve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big-Ole-Steve)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/13 "2003-07-15T15:44:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Maureen \* > \*\*OK. Women are supposed to remain virgins til they marry. Men \*\* I certainly accept that this “notion” is popular in society, amongst certain ignorant types…but in true religious piety, it is unaccepted. When I was a Mormon, i looked down on sexually active single males just as much as females. I saw them both as impure, but neither moreso than the other. I think the silly “It’s OK for guys, not for girls.” is born out of the fact that many men do not see it as a big deal for their sons to be having sex…but are horrified that their daughters are. And for a poeple just barely having created sex without the chance of pregnancy, this makes sense. If your daughter was having sex and go pregnant, you had to pay for it…if your son was…someone else would have to pay for it. That’s just a WAG, tho. Anyway, yeah, as a Mormon, I thought both genders were wrong for having premarital sex. Of course, now I think both are perfectly fine. ESPECIALLY women 😉 Steve ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/14 "2003-07-15T15:57:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Maureen \* > \*\*OK. Women are supposed to remain virgins til they marry. Men can have as much sex as they like. Who are they having sex with? > > This pervading puritanical attitude is part of what keeps alive the ridiculous theory “there are women you fuck, and women you marry.” > > A man can have as much sex as he likes and still be considered a moral, decent person. A woman who enjoys sex and is confident and comfortable in her sexuality is impure, no matter how she conducts herself in all other aspects of her life. > \*\* I’m sorry, but I have to call BS here. There may have been a time in history when this kind of double-standard was taken for granted, but if there’s any of it left, we’re seeing the last gasp of it. Can you give me an example of a woman today who is judged harshly for being “confident and comfortable in her sexuality”? And by mainstream people, not religious fundamentalists on the fringes of society? ---
**Author:** ![Planet\_of\_the\_Shapes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Planet\_of\_the\_Shapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Planet_of_the_Shapes)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/15 "2003-07-15T16:00:41Z")
Personally i’d rather have sex with a non virgin. I’m sure a virgin wouldn’t know what she’s doing, would find it painful etc. more hassle than its worth! ---
**Author:** ![Elza\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Elza\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elza_B)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/16 "2003-07-15T16:13:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by whiterabbit \* > \*\*Don’t worry, **Mottpot**. I was 25 when I lost mine. An opportunity hadn’t presented itself up to that point. \*\* And I lost mine two years later, for the practically the same reasons. There were opportunities for one-night stands available, but having gone through a traumatic sexual experience as a child, I couldn’t do that - it took years for me to get past my intimacy issues and they still haunt me to an extent. I’ve only slept with one person and I plan to marry him next year - it wasn’t intentional, it just worked out that way. Although the experience of being with someone ‘different’ is something I half-wish for, I also like the fact that this is something special that he and I share (although he wasn’t a virgin when we were first together). However, it wasn’t that I _prized_ my virginity - I have no moral issues with sex before marriage (obviously), it was just that emotionally, I needed to work through some things before I could even let someone touch me without fleeing in terror. **Mottpot** , no matter what your friends and peers may say, you are definitely not alone in being a virgin. Ava ---
**Author:** ![typhoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed8c4c/32.png) [@typhoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typhoon)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/17 "2003-07-15T16:22:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cuauhtemoc \* > \*\*I’m sorry, but I have to call BS here. There may have been a time in history when this kind of double-standard was taken for granted, but if there’s any of it left, we’re seeing the last gasp of it. Can you give me an example of a woman today who is judged harshly for being “confident and comfortable in her sexuality”? And by mainstream people, not religious fundamentalists on the fringes of society? \*\* I dunno, but I can kind of see what he’s talking about coming out of high school. Girls who had a fair bit of unattached sex with people were considered sluts, but guys who did the same were considered, uh, popular. Well, maybe it’s not that polarized, but I agree that girls are more harshly criticized for losing their virginities than guys. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/18 "2003-07-15T16:34:06Z")
There was a time when Western, secular society valued female virginity, but not any more. I think Mottpot had it right, there is more stigma these days in being a virgin than not. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/19 "2003-07-15T17:08:16Z")
A friend of my husband’s, who is by no means a “religious fundamentalist,” once told me he could never marry a woman he considered promiscuous. I asked him his definition of promiscuous. His response? “Any woman who has been with more partners than I have.” ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/20 "2003-07-15T17:09:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Planet of the Shapes \* > \*\*Personally i’d rather have sex with a non virgin. I’m sure a virgin wouldn’t know what she’s doing, would find it painful etc. more hassle than its worth! \*\* What a load of horseshit! Sex isn’t some hugely complex ritual that you have to run through several times to get it learned. Yeah, there’s a little bit of a learning curve, but for the most part it’s a pretty easy, relaxed, beginner-friendly enterprise, trust me. Well, it is is you’re doing it right. If you’re not bothering with foreplay, it’s gonna be painful as hell. Of course, if you aren’t bothering with foreplay, no one will ever _want_ to have sex with you, regardless of her experience level. If a woman is relaxed, comfortable, and truly aroused, though, losing her virginity really shouldn’t be painful. (For me it was a couple of seconds of sharp pain that immediately vanished, leaving behind only the fun stuff, and I’ve heard other women describe similar experiences under similar circumstances.) If it’s a hassle to make sure that a woman is happy, comfortable, and aroused, you clearly don’t know what you’re doing. And by aroused, I do NOT mean “Oooh, she’s wet, it’s time to cram it in.” True arousal is far more mental than physical. I don’t agree that virginity is a treasure to be maintained at any cost, but I just don’t like the attitude that virginity is a problem, or a hassle, or something to be ashamed of, either. I think it leads to a lot more problems than it solves, frankly. Yes, women should feel comfortable expressing their sexuality, regardless of their age or commitment level. However, a lot of young women wind up having sex they didn’t particularly want, didn’t enjoy, and later regret, just to get rid of that pesky, shameful virginity before they get freakishly old, and that leaves them with unhealthy attitudes towards sex that last for years. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655.md?page=2)