# Does female virginity really have any true sacredness or social importance anymore? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 15, 2003, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655 "2003-07-15T14:27:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/41 "2003-07-17T05:21:31Z")
> [@](#): > > I was just reading an article this morning about the abuses being heaped, by their own families, on women in Iraq who have been raped or abucted. > > Have sex or don’t have it, but good nfbsking riddance to the notion that virginity has any intrinsic value. I think if anything, that confirms how much value virginity has to some people if they’re treating women who’ve been raped as if they had a choice. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/42 "2003-07-17T05:57:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MikeRochenelle \* > Still, as long as some significant group of people somewhere thing that a woman’s virginity means something, then it will. And there are still plenty of people who do, however misguided they are. > > … > > It’s a far worse insult in my book to be called “frigid”, “tease” or “virgin” than “slut.” If you use the word “virgin” as an insult, than it must mean something. Make up your mind. > [@](#): > > I don’t like the stupid double standard that society foists off on men and women - you know, it’s good for men to be sexually active but it’s shameful for women. What a load of horseshit. I’m not sure there is a double standard. The attitude you describe (if indeed it still exists) is offset by the idea that it’s good for women to be virgins but it’s shameful for men. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/43 "2003-07-17T06:18:29Z")
> [@](#): > > The attitude you describe (if indeed it still exists) is offset by the idea that it’s good for women to be virgins but it’s shameful for men. It exists and really isn’t hard to find. And yes, that’s still a double-standard. The same behavior that is encouraged in one group (males) is discouraged in another (females). That’s a double-standard. Those things really don’t offset. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/44 "2003-07-17T07:39:55Z")
Well, Mike, if you’re using the fact that a woman chooses not to have sex with you as a basis to call her names, it’s not wonder they get angry. It’s just as assholish, IMO, to call someone a tease for choosing not to have sex, as it is to call someone a slut for choosing to have sex. Women probably take it so personally because it’s a personal decision and none of your flippin’ business _what_ she decides. And how, exactly, is it bad to have decided not to have sex yet? Being a virgin, or an experienced woman who chooses not have sex at this time has absolutely nothing to do with healthy or unhealthy attitudes towards sex. I waited longer than any of my friends to have sex, and as a result of waiting till I was well and truly ready, I was able to skip that whole awkward “I don’t see what the big deal’s about, but it keeps him happy” stage and go right into the good stuff. For me at least, that was a lot healthier than sleeping with anyone with a hard-on just so I wouldn’t be considered a tease. ---
**Author:** ![tanookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/48db29/32.png) [@tanookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanookie)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/45 "2003-07-17T11:22:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Vlad Dracul \* > \*\*A couple of things puzzle me about this… > > Since most men throughout history have wanted to have children (to prove their virility, if nothing else), you’d think that young women who’d already proved their fertility would be in the greatest demand. > > Since most men want the maximum possible sexual pleasure, you’d think that an experienced woman who’s gotten good reviews would be in more demand than an untried, unpracticed virgin. \*\* Men want fertile women to bear their children - if they want children at all. They don’t usually want to be responsible for some other guy’s kids. Try being a single mom entering the dating scene one day and see what happens when guys discover you have kids! (heck in the wild some males kill the offspring of other males to throw the female back in heat and make their own kids) I also think while most men do want sexual pleasure sometimes the thought of being ‘sloppy seconds’ sets them off a woman whose sexual partners he knows and would have gotten ‘reviews’ from. ---
**Author:** ![MikeRochenelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/49beb7/32.png) [@MikeRochenelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeRochenelle)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/46 "2003-07-18T00:18:03Z")
**CrazyCatLady** _Well, Mike, if you’re using the fact that a woman chooses not to have sex with you as a basis to call her names, it’s not wonder they get angry._ Hm, strange, I don’t remember saying or even implying that this was about me in specific. Very interesting that you take it personally. As I mentioned in my post, this seems to happen quite often. May I ask, why did you take such deep and personal offense at my post? - It’s just as assholish, IMO, to call someone a tease for choosing not to have sex, as it is to call someone a slut for choosing to have sex.\* Perhaps so, but if a woman makes sexual advances, and then chickens out at the last minute, she’s not being a very good person. Women who do this kind of thing generally give off the sexual signals because they like the attention or enjoy playing puppeteer with guys who don’t recognize them for what they are - insecure little girls who are still afraid of their own sexuality and/or the sexuality of men. _Women probably take it so personally because it’s a personal decision and none of your flippin’ business what she decides._ if it doesn’t involve me, that’s true. And in such cases I do keep my mouth shut - indeed, not my business. However if it does involve me (as it has a time or two in the past), then I’m going to damn well tell her what I think of her behavior in no uncertain terms. If you don’t like that, you’re free to say so. And I’m free to tell you where to go. And so the cycle turns… _And how, exactly, is it bad to have decided not to have sex yet?_ It’s bad if the decision rests upon the social myth about the “goodness” of female virginity or the other social myth about the “evilness” of sexual promiscuity in women. Didn’t I explain this in my first post to this thread? Were you so busy ranting at me that you didn’t actually read what I wrote? Does this not ring a bell? **MikeRochenelle** _Certanly, one should not have sex with someone that they don’t like and are not into, etc._ **CrazyCatLady** _Being a virgin, or an experienced woman who chooses not have sex at this time has absolutely nothing to do with healthy or unhealthy attitudes towards sex._ Not necessarily true. As a matter of fact, I would say that most of the time, that’s not true. Most of the time when women are prude, it’s at least partly wrapped up in a virginity complex and/or insecurity about their sexuality, or a social consciousness about the word “slut.” - I waited longer than any of my friends to have sex, and as a result of waiting till I was well and truly ready, I was able to skip that whole awkward “I don’t see what the big deal’s about, but it keeps him happy” stage and go right into the good stuff.\* Good for you. I think you made the right decision for the right reasons, and I support that. I just think that there are a lot of women out there making coincidentally right (or wrong) decisions for all the wrong reasons, and that practice has negative repercussions later on in their lives. _For me at least, that was a lot healthier than sleeping with anyone with a hard-on just so I wouldn’t be considered a tease._ You have completely and totally missed my point. If you make it clear from the first that you’re not interested in anything sexual and don’t flirt, etc, then you’re not being a tease. It’s only if you flirt, send the sexual signals, etc, and THEN don’t deliver that you’re being a tease. That’s what’s bad. Maybe you’ll be happier if I sum it up with **cher3** ’s words: “Have sex or don’t have it, but good nfbsking riddance to the notion that virginity has any intrinsic value.” That’s my attitude in a nutshell. Last comment, not directed at you… Who do I have to whack in the forebrain with a hammer for them to get the joke in my username?? If people are going to keep calling me Mike, I’m changing it pronto. It’s really fucking obnoxious that people can’t even read my name that I sign at the end of every post. -Ben ---
**Author:** ![msrexrabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@msrexrabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msrexrabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655/47 "2003-07-18T01:49:48Z")
Kinda ironic that this post came up. Just yesterday I was asked by my friend to remind him why I didn’t want to have sex with him. My response was “because I am a virgin and have this notion that I would prefer my first time to be with someone I loved, in a relationship with promise.” I do admit though that my current status as a virgin at 20 may have more to do with running from relationships than lack of people that would like to receive the virginity. I am honest about my virginity and my state of still being one seems to confuse some people. One friend was so confused he decided that my being not bad looking, not religious and a virgin ment I must be a lesbian. I have a religious friend that is a virgin at 26 and a friend with a daughter in open adoption. I don’t judge the situation of either because their sex lives are not why I chose them as friends. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-female-virginity-really-have-any-true-sacredness-or-social-importance-anymore/188655.md?page=2)