# Does Florida's SB1718 violate the U.S. Constitution? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 26, 2023, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-floridas-sb1718-violate-the-u-s-constitution/987600 "2023-07-26T00:46:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-floridas-sb1718-violate-the-u-s-constitution/987600/21 "2023-07-26T20:01:48Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Should the government (state or Federal) give you the rights of a citizen if you are but can’t prove it? Basically just on your word? > [@DrDeth](#): > > Because the USA has not gotten to “papers please”. We have gotten to “papers please” when you are pulled over. In probably 100% of traffic stops, the driver is asked for their license. (We all know this, of course, but it may have slipped your mind.) What’s not allowed is to randomly pull cars over, or use racial profiling and base searches on that. Due process, cited upthread, requires individualized consideration. But if you break the traffic laws by speeding, etc, then yes, you need to produce some documents. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Not to mention those undocumented people have jobs people born here dont want, and often cant do. Who will pick the crops? Florida has decided to tighten employment laws, too. Same act: SB1718. If you think there’s something unconstitutional, I’m all ears. > [@DrDeth](#): > > the provision not recognizing licenses issued by other states is likely to violate the U.S. Constitution’s [Full Faith and Credit](https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artIV-S1-1/ALDE_00013015/) clause, which directs states to recognize the laws, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. I think I addressed this above, > [@Max\_S](#): > > It might be argued that Connecticut and Delaware licenses grant the licensees the legal privilege to drive anywhere in the nation, and by refusing to let said licensees drive in Florida, the state of Florida is not giving faith and credit to the laws of Connecticut and Delaware. I suggest that Connecticut and Delaware do not purport to (and have no power to) bestow on their licensees the privilege to drive on Florida roads. Florida has jurisdiction over its own roads. By denying Florida nonresidents the privilege of driving on Florida roads, Florida has not impugned any laws, acts, or judgments of Connecticut or Delaware and therefore is not violating the Full Faith and Credit clause. Affected persons are still able to drive in Connecticut and Delaware, just not Florida. Do _you_ see a fault in my counterargument? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-floridas-sb1718-violate-the-u-s-constitution/987600/22 "2023-07-26T20:12:59Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Yes, but no. It excludes license categories that are explicitly created for undocumented individuals. There’s nothing in SB1718 that gets around a state issuing regular licenses to undocumented individuals, or creating a new license category for everyone that simply doesn’t require the applicant to present proof of residency. Florida may argue in court that such a license meets the criteria of its own statute, but the statute is narrowly worded. Surprisingly so, IMO. Indeed many states already do so. 18 states, and D.C., allow undocumented immigrants to obtain drivers licenses. Of all these, only certain Connecticut and Delaware licenses meet Florida’s new statutory criteria for exclusion. It’s no surprise that Florida, which is heavily reliant on tourism and snowbirds, is reluctant to ban drivers from so many states. > **[States (and DC) That Allow Undocumented Immigrants to Obtain Driver's Licenses...](https://immigration.procon.org/states-and-dc-that-allow-drivers-licenses-for-people-in-the-country-illegally/)** > > (as of Nov. 14, 2022) Undocumented immigrants cannot produce the necessary documents (like a social security card) to obtain a driver’s license under state laws. Beginning in 1993 with Washington state, 18 states and DC have since allowed... > [@steronz](#): > > But yes, thank you for pointing out that this is in the exact sort of statute Shagnasty was referring to in that old thread. I have a hard time finding them. Still haven’t found Ohio’s for instance. You can look up the state law for the driver’s license compact [here](https://apps.csg.org/ncic/Compact.aspx?id=56), and usually within the same chapter/title there will be a reciprocal license statute. Ohio’s statute is [RC 4507.04](https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4507.04). ~Max ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2023, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-floridas-sb1718-violate-the-u-s-constitution/987600/23 "2023-07-26T20:58:03Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Ohio’s statute is [RC 4507.04](https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4507.04) Which interestingly would imply that drivers with an explicitly not-for-ID license should also have another way to show identity accepted by Ohio (but does not have to be proof of citizenship). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2023, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-floridas-sb1718-violate-the-u-s-constitution/987600/24 "2023-07-27T00:42:06Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > We have gotten to “papers please” when you are pulled over. In probably 100% of traffic stops, the driver is asked for their license. (We all know this, of course, but it may have slipped your mind.) Just for the privilege of driving. Like you have to show ID to get your $ out of bank. > [@Max\_S](#): > > I think I addressed this above, Your opinion, that was theirs. If you are married in CA, are you not also married in Fla? Can Fla refuse to acknowledge gay marriages? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2023, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-floridas-sb1718-violate-the-u-s-constitution/987600/25 "2023-07-27T00:56:34Z")
Under the Full Faith and Credit Clause, no, Florida cannot refuse to acknowledge another state’s marriage. Under the imaginary Public Policy Exception that right-wingers invented but that isn’t actually in the Constitution, they can. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-floridas-sb1718-violate-the-u-s-constitution/987600/26 "2023-07-30T06:10:48Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Just for the privilege of driving. Which is precisely the privilege at issue here. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Your opinion, that was theirs. I provided an argument for my opinion. Neither you nor the article you cited supplied any rationale. > [@DrDeth](#): > > If you are married in CA, are you not also married in Fla? Can Fla refuse to acknowledge gay marriages? A marriage is unlike a driver’s license because it is a contract, not a license. _Lex loci contractus_. Florida is generally bound by the FF&C clause to recognize contracts entered into in a sister state, and furthermore to give effect to said contract using the laws of the original jurisdiction. This is especially relevant in family law. Now let’s try to analogize a driver’s license as a contract. The issuing state, Connecticut, grants the licensee the privilege to drive on _ **that state’s** _ public roads, in consideration for licensee’s promise to abide by that state’s traffic code (and possibly a fee). The licensee drives to Florida, is pulled over for speeding, arrested for driving without a valid license, and convicted for the misdemeanor offense. By failing to extend the privilege to drive on _Florida_ roads, has Florida failed to give the Connecticut-Licensee ‘contract’ full faith and credit? The answer is no. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-floridas-sb1718-violate-the-u-s-constitution/987600/27 "2023-07-30T21:02:49Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Which is precisely the privilege at issue here. No, not really. Th issue is full faith and credit. Would it be okay for a Red state to not recognize any license for any Blue state? Making traps for unwary motorists? ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-floridas-sb1718-violate-the-u-s-constitution/987600/28 "2023-07-30T21:33:42Z")
These aren’t full licenses. The states (DE and CT) specifically call out that state’s public roads for the limited licenses. There is no effect on ordinary CT and DE licenses which remain fully recognized. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2023, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-floridas-sb1718-violate-the-u-s-constitution/987600/29 "2023-07-30T23:34:36Z")
It wouldn’t be OK, but it’d be constitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2023, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-floridas-sb1718-violate-the-u-s-constitution/987600/30 "2023-07-31T15:29:05Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Making traps for unwary motorists? Which is why I said earlier that the commerce clause might be a better analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2023, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-floridas-sb1718-violate-the-u-s-constitution/987600/31 "2023-08-01T23:34:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Would it be okay for a Red state to not recognize any license for any Blue state? I’m not 100% I understand your question (or where you are heading with it). I’m qualifying my answer. Assuming “would it be okay for X” means do I think X doesn’t violate the Full Faith and Credit clause (_only_ talking about not violating the FF&C clause - not say, equal protection or Due process or P&I), Assuming red and blue states refers to states with Republican-controlled and Democrat-controlled legislatures, Assuming recognize X means extend the privilege to drive on the red state’s own public roads to individuals who have only X Assuming any license for any Blue state means a license issued by a Blue state granting the holder the privilege to drive in that same Blue state, then my answer is yes, **it would be okay**. If a state with a Republican-controlled legislature were to not extend the privilege of driving on it’s own public roads to individuals who have only a license issued by a state with a Democrat-controlled legislature, that would not violate the Full Faith and Credit clause. * * * Put it this way. If you have a license to hunt in Alabama, Florida’s only obligation under the FF&C clause is to recognize that you have a license to hunt… _in Alabama_. (This might come into play in contract law if your being licensed in Alabama is part of a contract.) Florida is not obligated to let you hunt in Florida just because you have a license to hunt in Alabama. Let’s say you have a license to practice medicine in the state of Georgia. Florida is obligated to recognize your medical license. That only means that Florida recognizes you are licensed to practice medicine _in Georgia_. (This recognition might come into play in employment contract law or, say, a defamation suit.) Florida is not required to let you practice medicine in Florida with your Georgia license just because the Full Faith and Credit clause exists. Driving is a perfect analogy. If you have a license to drive, issued in Connecticut or whichever state, Florida will recognize that you are licensed to drive _in Connecticut_. The Full Faith & Credit clause does not obligate Florida to let you drive in Florida with a Connecticut license. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-floridas-sb1718-violate-the-u-s-constitution/987600/32 "2023-08-02T01:26:46Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > . If a state with a Republican-controlled legislature were to not extend the privilege of driving on it’s own public roads to individuals who have only a license issued by a state with a Democrat-controlled legislature, that would not violate the Full Faith and Credit clause. Not to mention this site also disagrees with you- > **[Full Faith And Credit Definition and Legal Meaning](https://legal-explanations.com/definition/full-faith-and-credit/)** > > Find out what the legal meaning of Full Faith And Credit is - in plain English. Click to read! Also Nolo does- [Will My Driver's License Work in Any State?](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/your-drivers-license-faq.html#:~:text=Do%20You%20Need%20to%20Get,establishing%20residence%20in%20that%20state.I) didnt ask about just the Full Faith and Credit laws. ## s My Driver’s License Valid in Every State? Having a valid license in your state of residence generally allows you to lawfully drive in every other state. However, most states have some limitations that apply to at least some out-of-state drivers. According to Findlaw, [https://www.findlaw.com/traffic/drivers-license-vehicle-info/driver-s-licenses-faq.html#:~:text=What%20if%20the%20driving%20age,of%20moving%20to%20that%20state](https://www.findlaw.com/traffic/drivers-license-vehicle-info/driver-s-licenses-faq.html#:~:text=What%20if%20the%20driving%20age,of%20moving%20to%20that%20state)). The Driver License Compact (which Florida signed), every states license is valid in every other state. Its theme is One Driver, One License, One Record. > **[Valid Driver's License: Is My Driver's License Valid in Every State? -...](https://www.drivesafeonline.org/traffic-school/is-drivers-license-valid-everywhere/)** > > Do you have a valid driver's license for every US state? What happens if you get a ticket in another state? Click here to find out. And here [Full Faith Clause of the Constitution | Heavy Haulers RV Resource Guide](https://www.hhrvresource.com/node/779.html#:~:text=What%20does%20this%20mean%20to,issued%20by%20any%20other%20state). > [@Max\_S](#): > > Driving is a perfect analogy. If you have a license to drive, issued in Connecticut or whichever state, Florida will recognize that you are licensed to drive _in Connecticut_. The Full Faith & Credit clause does not obligate Florida to let you drive in Florida with a Connecticut license. This is like saying a Marriage license issued by one state doe snot obligate another state to recognize that. But SCOTUS said it did. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-floridas-sb1718-violate-the-u-s-constitution/987600/33 "2023-08-02T23:41:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not to mention this site also disagrees with you- > > [Full Faith And Credit Definition - What Does Full Faith And Credit Mean?](https://legal-explanations.com/definition/full-faith-and-credit/) [legal-explanations.com](http://legal-explanations.com) certainly disagrees with me. They don’t provide any explanation, though, and it is not an authority in my opinion, so I’ll disregard that cite. Nolo and Findlaw are somewhat reliable sources but neither is on-point. Nolo’s article is unsigned and undated and couches its assertion in general terms. (“Having a valid license in your state of residence _generally_ allows you to lawfully drive in every other state.”) Findlaw’s article may have been accurate when it was written in 2017 but it does not address current Florida law. Neither article purports to explain the constitutional implications of the Full Faith & Credit clause on license reciprocity. Neither cite provides authoritative or persuasive support for the assertion that SB1718 violates the federal constitution; neither cite addresses, let alone invalidates my position. The Driver License Compact was cited upthread and deals with sharing of information. No provisions require driving privilege reciprocity. As I have noted, and your Findlaw article notes, it is common for states to impose a minimum age requirement on nonresidents. The Driver License Compact has nothing to say about minimum age or any other requirement a state might want to impose on nonresident drivers. The cite you pulled for the Driver License Compact, [hhrvresource.com](http://hhrvresource.com), appears to be a heavy duty truck and RV enthusiast website. I won’t dismiss it out of hand, but know that I don’t find it authoritative. > “The Full Faith Clause means that every state has to accept a drivers license or vehicle registration issued by any other state.” I agree with this statement, provided that acceptance of the license or registration only entails acceptance that such license or registration was issued by another state. > “In more direct terms, if your registration state says you have a HDT registered as an RV and that vehicle can be driven by a Class C license, then every other state has to accept that combination of vehicle registration and drivers license.” This appears to be true, but it’s not by operation of the Full Faith & Credit clause. Commercial driver licenses are governed by federal statute, enacted pursuant to Congress’s power to regulate commerce between the states. States must allow commercial drivers to use their roads with out-of-state commercial licenses because of 49 U.S. Code § 31136 et seq. Those laws are inapplicable to personal licenses such as those affected by SB1718. * * * I’ll add yet another analogy. Gun licenses. Say you obtain a license to carry a handgun in Texas. That does not grant you the privilege to carry a handgun in California. California is obligated to recognize that you are licensed in Texas, if for example you were employed by a California company and signed an employment contract subject to California law requiring you to keep a license in Texas. Full faith and credit does not require California to let Texans carry handguns without a California license. And in fact, [California does not reciprocate](https://www.dps.texas.gov/section/handgun-licensing/state-reciprocity-information) in this regard. ~Max [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-floridas-sb1718-violate-the-u-s-constitution/987600.md?page=1)