# Does George Bush believe he is playing a part in the final events of Armageddon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 6, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928 "2003-04-06T21:55:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928/1 "2003-04-06T21:55:28Z")
[Bush puts God on his side](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2921345.stm) > [@](#): > > Before September 11, President George W Bush kept his evangelical Christian beliefs largely to himself. > > Bush convinced God wants him to engage the forces of evil . He had turned to God at the age of 40 as a way of kicking alcoholism, and his faith had kept him on the straight and narrow ever since, giving him the drive to reach the White House. > > But all that changed on the day of the attacks on the Pentagon and World Trade Center. Those close to Mr Bush say that day he discovered his life’s mission. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2003, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928/2 "2003-04-06T22:08:13Z")
> [@](#): > > He became convinced that God was calling him to engage the forces of evil in battle, and this one time baseball-team owner from Texas did not shrink from the task. Does diplomacy mean anything to man who believes he’s on a jihad? If this is true, can there be even a shred of doubt that there was absolutely no way to dissuade Bush from war, and talk of it being a “reluctant last resort” was utter bullshit? When God tells you to do battle, you do battle. UN and diplomacy be damned. I really, really hope this isn’t true. I will comfort myself with the fact that this is from “Those close to Mr Bush” and MAYBE not really how he feels. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928/3 "2003-04-06T22:31:31Z")
Thank you for posting this, **astro**. I’ve long been tempted to start a “Eschatology in the Oval Office” thread over in great debates. The Saudis have already brought this up in recent political wrangling. I find even the vaguest possibility of this being true to be extremely alarming. While discussing religion with an Orthodox Christian a while back, I asked him if he was hoping for Armageddon. His reply was that he joyously anticipated this as it would bring with it Christ’s return to earth. Shrub has sufficient fundamentalist leanings whereby I am unable to dismiss this notion. That he may be precipitating events in the Middle East in order propagate his own vision of the “end times” is an unspeakable horror. The best selling nature of Tim LeHaye’s books dealing with the “end times” speaks volumes about Christian America’s predilection for this subject. One need only consider the gigantic popularity of the “Left Behind” series to obtain confirmation of this fact. Shrub must be ousted from office quickly as possible before he irreparably damages America’s image as a polytheistic nation. His repeated blatting about God in his speechmaking projects a wrongheaded and irresponsible attitude for leadership to have. His divisive cabinet choices have begun to drive damaging wedges into America’s political heart. The enormous conflicts of interest manifested by Shrub’s ties to big oil and big business in general have utterly tainted any vestiges of moral justification America might have for intervening in Iraq. America cannot afford to have any sort of religious scheming as the basis of its foreign policy. Shrub’s repeated attempts to irreversibly blur the separation of church and state is treasonous and un-American. In addition, his incessant invocation of an obviously Christian God paints terrorist crosshairs on every American’s back and encourages further attacks. Our country deserves competent leadership by a properly elected executive who is able to prevent their own religion from influencing vital affairs of state. Evidently, this is impossible for Shrub and by continuing to do so he has permanently disqualified himself from further participation in Federal politics. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928/4 "2003-04-06T22:55:49Z")
Cheney would suceed Bush if he left office early. Does he share these apocalyptic views? ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2003, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928/5 "2003-04-06T23:02:06Z")
Excellent post, \*\* Zenster. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Bob55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Bob55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob55)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928/6 "2003-04-07T00:00:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > \*\*Shrub must be ousted from office quickly as possible before he irreparably damages America’s image as a polytheistic nation. His repeated blatting about God in his speechmaking projects a wrongheaded and irresponsible attitude for leadership to have. \*\* Is Bush responsible for putting God in Declaration of Independence? Or “One Nation Under God” in the Pledge? Or “In God We Trust” on coins? God has been an important part of our nation long before any of us were born, Bush is no more ‘fundamentalist’ than any of our forefathers. From [this site](http://www.acknowledgegodamerica.com/index2.html) we see: > [@](#): > > The DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE served a great purpose during the struggle to establish the nation. It refers to “nature’s God”, “their Creator”, “Supreme Judge of the world”, and "Divine Providence. > > The ARTICLES OF CONFEDERATION acknowledged GOD with the words “great Governor of the World”. > > The constitution of every state of the United States of America acknowledges GOD > > The words “IN GOD WE TRUST” appear on coinage and paper money of the United States of America. This acknowledgement of GOD first appeared on a two-cent piece in 1864. > > The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America includes the words “one Nation under God,”. These words were added June 14, 1954 ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928/7 "2003-04-07T00:18:04Z")
I’m reminded of James Watt, Sec. of Interior under Reagan who said something like “We don’t have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand.” I hope GWB doesn’t have a similar attitude; that nothing he does will matter in the long run because he’ll be raptured out of whatever mess he creates. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928/8 "2003-04-07T00:34:37Z")
Here’s some commentary on the BBC article and a BBC TV program on this subject that was broadcast on C-SPAN over the weekend. [http://www.buzzmachine.com/archives/2003\_04.html#003408](http://www.buzzmachine.com/archives/2003_04.html#003408) from [http://www.pejmanesque.com/archives/002207.html](http://www.pejmanesque.com/archives/002207.html) > [@](#): > > Hitchens further pointed out that President Bush is not the first President (and won’t be the last) to call upon God’s blessing in fighting a pernicious enemy, and that the vast majority of people in America were willing to take some kind of moral stance against terrorism, and those who sponsor terrorism. > > Additionally, another guest who is a member of the clergy, and who actually knows President Bush had to step in and remind the anchorman that the President is not a millennialist Christian who actively works to bring about the End Times… I was watching the program intermittently, so I can’t verify these. But I was shocked at how they were grasping at straws to make the Bush-as-millennialist point. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > I’ve long been tempted to start a “Eschatology in the Oval Office” thread over in great debates. The Saudis have already brought this up in recent political wrangling. I’d consider the source, if I were you. > [@](#): > > I find even the vaguest possibility of this being true to be extremely alarming. Shrub has sufficient fundamentalist leanings whereby I am unable to dismiss this notion. That he may be precipitating events in the Middle East in order propagate his own vision of the “end times” is an unspeakable horror. While I don’t consider your own views an unspeakable horror, I am becoming increasingly afraid at how you and many others are **way** overreacting to some “vaguest possibility”. > [@](#): > > The enormous conflicts of interest manifested by Shrub’s ties to big oil and big business in general have utterly tainted any vestiges of moral justification America might have for intervening in Iraq. I’m sure the thousands more Iraqis Saddam would torture and kill would congratulate you on your morality. Frankly, it’s views like this that are destroying the credibility the entire left, not just to me and other Americans, but also to many Iraqis. > [@](#): > > Shrub’s repeated attempts to irreversibly blur the separation of church and state is treasonous and un-American…Evidently, this is impossible for Shrub and by continuing to do so he has permanently disqualified himself from further participation in Federal politics. How did we get to the condition of separation of church and state that has increased from the beginnings of the USA (that Bush is supposedly destroying) if the destruction is irreversible? “Treasonous”??? See my above remarks about overreacting. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928/9 "2003-04-07T00:47:28Z")
IMHO, to “call upon God’s blessing in fighting a pernicious enemy” is **VERY** different from being “convinced that God was calling him to engage the forces of evil in battle”. Asking for God’s blessing is a far cry from believing He has picked you to lead a holy war against evil. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928/10 "2003-04-07T00:50:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bob55 \* > **God has been an important part of our nation long before any of us were born, Bush is no more ‘fundamentalist’ than any of our forefathers.** Bush is _far_ more fundamentalist than at least some of our Forefathers. [http://www.atheism.org/~godlessheathen/Founders.html](http://www.atheism.org/~godlessheathen/Founders.html) ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928/11 "2003-04-07T01:02:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lissa \* > Excellent post, \*\* Zenster. \*\* Thank you, **Lissa**. This situation is rather worrisome. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rowrrbazzle \* > … I’m sure the thousands more Iraqis Saddam would torture and kill would congratulate you on your morality … Please read my response to **McDuff** ’s, [The Cost of War](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=175046) thread before you continue to make such unbased assumptions. You are evidently rather unaware of my stance on this war. Feel free to post there with your own read on **McDuff** ’s position. I’d be interested to see what you have to share. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928/12 "2003-04-07T01:37:48Z")
Does anyone have any actual EVIDENCE Bush believes he’s playing a part in Armageddon? Any evidence at all? ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928/13 "2003-04-07T01:37:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > > Shrub must be ousted from office quickly as possible before he irreparably damages America’s image as a polytheistic nation. \*\* I didn’t realize the United States was a **polytheistic** nation. :eek: Well, there might be some Americans who worhip Odin, Jupiter or Zeus. And a lot of Americans worship the Almighty Dollar. 😃 Other than that, I pretty well agree with the rest of your post. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928/14 "2003-04-07T01:54:54Z")
Would you care to be more specific about what you mean by “Shrub must be ousted from office quickly [sic] as possible”, **Zenster**? Impeachment hearings? Based on what? I don’t hear any calls for his impeachment from any congressmen/women. Or were you thinking of some other method? Do tell… ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928/15 "2003-04-07T02:42:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 5 time champ \* > I didn’t realize the United States was a **polytheistic** nation. :eek: Well, there might be some Americans who worhip Odin, Jupiter or Zeus. And a lot of Americans worship the Almighty Dollar. 😃 > > Other than that, I pretty well agree with the rest of your post. By ‘polytheistic’ I am referring to how America’s population has many different religions that often worship utterly different Gods. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Scrivener \* > Would you care to be more specific about what you mean by “Shrub must be ousted from office quickly [sic] as possible”, **Zenster**? > > Impeachment hearings? Based on what? I don’t hear any calls for his impeachment from any congressmen/women. > > Or were you thinking of some other method? Do tell… I’ll start by doing my best to ensure he is **not** re-selected to office. Raising the alarm over his flawed statesmanship in thread is certainly a beginning. A quote of Frank Sinatra’s regarding Nancy Reagan is brought to mind; “Dumb … dumb and dangerous.” ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928/16 "2003-04-07T02:52:59Z")
in THIS thread… ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928/17 "2003-04-07T04:35:09Z")
\*But now we got weapons of the chemical dust If fire them we’re forced to, then fire them we must One push of the button and a shot the world wide And you never ask questions when God’s on your side. - Bob Dylan \* ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928/18 "2003-04-07T14:28:31Z")
The SIMPLE answer is, “NO!” George Bush is not a sinister fundamentalist who’s trying to bring about Armageddon. The SIMPLE answer is that anyone who believes this is a paranoid fruitcake. But you know what? I won’t even bother trying to refute the notion. Because it’s so much FUN to watch left-wingers wetting their pants in fear of what Bush is going to do. Just like it was loads of fun watching them whimper and sob about how Ronald Reagan was going to blow up the world (pssst… the world is still here!). ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928/19 "2003-04-07T14:53:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astorian \* > \*\*Just like it was loads of fun watching them whimper and sob about how Ronald Reagan was going to blow up the world (pssst… the world is still here!). \*\* Didn’t Reagan publicly state that he believed in the rapture? That, in the event of a Soviet attack, all true born-agains would be lifted up by angels? If so, it would make me think that his advisers and Gorbachev did more to prevent such an occurrence than he did. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Raven\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@The\_Raven\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Raven_1)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928/20 "2003-04-07T15:10:16Z")
In my humble opinion… Someone’s skipping their meds again. -Rav [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-george-bush-believe-he-is-playing-a-part-in-the-final-events-of-armageddon/166928.md?page=2)