# Does God Love People Who Go To Hell? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 5, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757 "2010-02-05T03:17:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757/81 "2010-02-06T03:26:32Z")
There is the idea of course hellfire isn’t the sort you see in Dante or Chick tracts (with fire and torture) but more generally a separation from God. Also in the eyes of God who is perfect even trivial things like say lying or stealing could be just as horrible as mass murder or genocide is to our eyes. As for the inspiration for this question this blog post by the wife of Pastor Steve Anderson (on whom I posted a Pit thread back in December): > [@](#): > > It never ceases to amaze me how many so-called Christians think that God loves everybody. I can only attribute such ignorance to a complete lack of Bible reading. Please do not get all flustered and try to correct perceived wrong doctrines of others if you have never yet read through every single chapter of the Bible at least one time. > > Yes, at some point, God has loved every single person that has ever lived, and yes, He does love the vast majority of people alive today. But there is a line that people can cross even before they die where God stops loving them, and starts hating them. Otherwise, the following verses are all incorrect. God sends unsaved people to hell every day, and I hardly think He does so out of love for them. > > Our society would love to make hating (an emotion) a crime. It is impossible to love anything without also hating what would destroy that which we love. I love my kids, and I hate people that would like to violate them. > > Don’t just skip over these verses and pretend they do not exist. God is not Santa Claus. > > ```auto > > Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. > Psa 5:6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man. > > Psa 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. > > Psa 26:5 I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked. > > Psa 31:6 I have hated them that regard lying vanities: but I trust in the LORD. > > Psa 10:3 For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth. > > Psa 53:5 There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them. > > Lev 20:23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them. > > Lev 26:30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you. > > Deu 32:19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. > > Pro 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: > Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, > Pro 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, > Pro 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. > > Pro 22:14 The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is abhorred of the LORD shall fall therein. > > Psa 139:21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? > Psa 139:22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies. > > Zec 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul loathed them, and their soul also abhorred me. > > Hos 9:15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters. > > Mal 1:2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, > Mal 1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. > > Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757/82 "2010-02-06T03:46:06Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > There is the idea of course hellfire isn’t the sort you see in Dante or Chick tracts (with fire and torture) but more generally a separation from God. > > Also in the eyes of God who is perfect even trivial things like say lying or stealing could be just as horrible as mass murder or genocide is to our eyes. > > As for the inspiration for this question this blog post by the wife of Pastor Steve Anderson (on whom I posted a Pit thread back in December): Or as I suggest, the Glory of God is experienced by those who hate Him as the Fire of Hell. I do not think the idea of all sins being equal as contrasted with God’s Perfection is really Biblical. The Pastor’s wife makes a good point. God does hate some actions & there comes a point where you cannot separate the actions from the actor. Except for the verses about Esau being hated there, every passage cited shows God hating people who actually do harmful stuff to people & wallow in hateful attitudes. And to some extent, we are called to share in that hatred. HOWEVER, we Christians have to always remember that we were among those who merited God’s hatred. If Christ had so desired, He could have rightly killed the Christian-killer Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus & sent him straight to Hell. With that perspective, we have to be very careful in how we treat even the worst of people- and I say this as a staunch believer in the rightness of corporal & capital punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757/83 "2010-02-06T03:50:56Z")
I’ve a question, **FriarTed** ; would it also be reasonable to say that another reason why that hatred may not be so easily shared is that, not being omniscient, we don’t have access to as perfect a measure of judgement as does God? As an aside, the idea that God in his magnificience would be terrible to some seems to play that glory downwards quite a bit. Certainly in some situations being confronted with the antithesis of one’s beliefs or suchlike might well be unpleasant, but I would have thought such magnificience in this case would rather preclude that. We are talking ultimate glory here! ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757/84 "2010-02-06T04:08:33Z")
A bit offtopic but amusingly enough one of the ads I saw on this thread was this: > [@](#): > > Vote Bush 2008 > Write-in God’s candidate for 2008. Term limits: man’s law, not God’s! ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757/85 "2010-02-06T04:13:09Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I’ve a question, **FriarTed** ; would it also be reasonable to say that another reason why that hatred may not be so easily shared is that, not being omniscient, we don’t have access to as perfect a measure of judgement as does God? > > As an aside, the idea that God in his magnificience would be terrible to some seems to play that glory downwards quite a bit. Certainly in some situations being confronted with the antithesis of one’s beliefs or suchlike might well be unpleasant, but I would have thought such magnificience in this case would rather preclude that. We are talking ultimate glory here! Very reasonable! Thanks for bringing that up! I would be very happy to find out in the End that all people will be so enthralled at seeing God totally clearly that they will melt in repentance & adoration. However, I can’t discount Christ’s solemn warnings that even at the Judgment Throne, people will be copping an attitude with God. Some people are just that stubborn. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757/86 "2010-02-06T04:23:19Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > A bit offtopic but amusingly enough one of the ads I saw on this thread was this: Talk about some people’s concepts of Eternal Torment! ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757/87 "2010-02-06T04:59:27Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > I would be very happy to find out in the End that all people will be so enthralled at seeing God totally clearly that they will melt in repentance & adoration. However, I can’t discount Christ’s solemn warnings that even at the Judgment Throne, people will be copping an attitude with God. Some people are just that stubborn. Should such a thing as God exist, I hope I would be one of those people. He’s got a lot to answer for. The way I see it, just being the creator of the universe doesn’t give him any right to be shielded wholly from criticism. Sure, if God exists he could no doubt just reach into my mind, break a few important things, and – boom, just like that – I melt in repentance and adoration. If that’s the sort of thing he enjoys, that’s what’ll happen. But if he values _me_, he’ll take his lumps, because they’re part of the package. Anything else necessarily entails the death of me as an individual – in which case I stop existing anyway and could not care less what happens thereafter. For the record, if _I_ were a god, copping an attitude with your creator would not only be tolerated, but encouraged. People should think for themselves. The mere fact that someone created you and has the power to erase you from existence with a single thought does not grant them any right to treat you like a slave. If you have the power to do so, you can have neither respect nor love. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757/88 "2010-02-06T06:11:15Z")
Just to muddy up the situation further, I found John Paterson-Smyth’s 1910 Gospel of the HereAfter has been scanned onto the Net. I found my copy at a flea market for 10 cents over a decade ago. Glad to see it’s been given immortality on the Net. He gives Biblical consideration to Afterlife Salvation, Annihilation of the Wicked, and Universalism, tho he does not outrightly dismiss traditional viewpoints. He’s maddenly inconclusive but it’s great to see that he raises the questions. > **[The gospel of the hereafter : Smyth, J. Paterson (John Paterson), 1852-1932 :...](https://archive.org/details/gospeloftheherea00pateuoft)** > > viii, 224 p ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757/89 "2010-02-06T11:42:37Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As I understand it, being able to watch the damned scream in agony forever was originally touted as one of the pleasures of heaven. There is a difference between Heaven, the Kingdom of God, and the New Earth. Where one may end up depends on several things. But one in heaven or in the Kingdom of God can assist those souls in Hell and on earth, guiding them spiritually to Jesus to the extent that the person will allow. Only a very few will be locked in Hell/Lake of Fire for a very very long time, and you will see, even if they seemed friendly and nice on earth, just how rotten they are and how evil, how they caused great suffering for many. These very few people, are aspects of the soul of the devil, and is the reason for all suffering on earth. You will understand this, and that the fire is to ultimately refine them, even if it means burning away 99.99% of them in hell over ages of ages. You will understand that those ways cause untold suffering, and why that way must be destroyed for Love to rule. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757/90 "2010-02-06T12:51:41Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > There is a difference between Heaven, the Kingdom of God, and the New Earth. Where one may end up depends on several things. But one in heaven or in the Kingdom of God can assist those souls in Hell and on earth, guiding them spiritually to Jesus to the extent that the person will allow. Only a very few will be locked in Hell/Lake of Fire for a very very long time, and you will see, even if they seemed friendly and nice on earth, just how rotten they are and how evil, how they caused great suffering for many. These very few people, are aspects of the soul of the devil, and is the reason for all suffering on earth. You will understand this, and that the fire is to ultimately refine them, even if it means burning away 99.99% of them in hell over ages of ages. You will understand that those ways cause untold suffering, and why that way must be destroyed for Love to rule. Could you tell us which Bible contains this information, and where? ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757/91 "2010-02-06T17:43:56Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > There is some room in the middle between “loves everyone equally” and “tortures for eternity”. Maybe in heaven Hitler ends up being the shoe shine boy while a better person lives in a 4,500 sq. foot home. I dunno.. Well, that would make more sense than having Hitler, Pol Pot, Anne Frank, and Gandhi all in the same circle of hell because the first two were evil and the latter two didn’t have the “right” beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757/92 "2010-02-06T19:37:59Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Well, that would make more sense than having Hitler, Pol Pot, Anne Frank, and Gandhi all in the same circle of hell because the first two were evil and the latter two didn’t have the “right” beliefs. While I’m unsure if it’s exactly biblical according to some theologians people in Hell are punished according to their sins (ie so Hitler will be under far worse condtion than Ghandi). ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757/93 "2010-02-06T19:45:23Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Fair enough; but what I often see is atheists playing up apparently contradictory _caricactures_ of Christian belief, rather than anything grounded in actual doctrine. I can’t speak for Catholics, but I rather doubt anyone on their side of the aisle seriously argued that “Hell is chock full of people who ate meat on Friday,” being damned for that reason alone. And on the Protestant side? Oh, yeah, I suppose all mainstream Protestants are exactly equivalent to Biblical literalists, as someone asserted upthread. :rolleyes: > > In short, your brand of atheism is rather boring. **Dio** is more interesting, if he doesn’t mind my saying so, as he seems to be thoroughly familiar with Christian doctrine – and angry at it, and at God. Of course I can’t speak for him either, but that’s the way I hear (or mishear) what he’s saying. You are wrong. eating meat on Friday was a mortal sin. I was a Catholic and had a lot of trouble with that one. I attended Catechism classes and was conferred. I actually do know something about it. I was raised in the church and received my programming, ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757/94 "2010-02-06T19:55:04Z")
Church teachings are full of contradictions. The omniscient god who knows everything. The omnipresent god who is everywhere. If he is omnipresent, why do we have to go to church? If he knows everything, he knows if you will do bad. he may as well charbroil you at birth and save the trouble. How is it free will ,if he already knows what you are going to do? It does not stand up to much rigor. Church philosophers spent a lot of brainpower trying to find an explanation that would quiet the questions. Some go to church and never ask them. But at a higher level, the church constantly tries to invent explanations that will sell the flock that has doubts. But it fails miserably. The old church did not have to find an explanation for evolution. Darwin had the elders spinning their wheels trying to work around it. Science keeps them busy. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757/95 "2010-02-06T21:00:31Z")
I was raised a Baptist, and we were not supposed to question or doubt any doctrines; if we did, it was “Satan working on us.” ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757/96 "2010-02-06T23:47:17Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > I was raised a Baptist, and we were not supposed to question or doubt any doctrines; if we did, it was “Satan working on us.” What Baptist denomination were you-Southern Baptist or Independent Baptist? ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757/97 "2010-02-07T01:19:39Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > What Baptist denomination were you-Southern Baptist or Independent Baptist? Not Southern…unless it was Southern California. I never heard them call it anything but Baptist. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757/98 "2010-02-07T01:27:46Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Not Southern…unless it was Southern California. > I never heard them call it anything but Baptist. For instance what was the church’s name? Did you use the KJV? Did the ladies have to wear long skirts? Were the people there generally anti-Catholic? ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757/99 "2010-02-07T03:51:17Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > For instance what was the church’s name? Did you use the KJV? Did the ladies have to wear long skirts? Were the people there generally anti-Catholic? It was just called the First Baptist church, yes to the KJV, no dress code that I was ever aware of. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757/100 "2010-02-07T14:37:57Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > I was raised a Baptist, and we were not supposed to question or doubt any doctrines; if we did, it was “Satan working on us.” I get the same thing. It’s making me question my continued membership in that church. But that is just “Satan working even harder” on me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-god-love-people-who-go-to-hell/527757.md?page=6)