# Does having this really work for strong bones and strong joint? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 21, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052 "2015-09-21T01:16:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052/1 "2015-09-21T01:16:13Z")
Are these gimmicks or do they really work for strong bones and strong joint? Having Glucosamine, Chondroitin Sulfate, Omega-3 Fatty Acids and SAMe S-adenosyl-methionine. Are these mostly gimmicks or do they really work? Or if most people have fruit and vegetable 3 to 4 times a week and eggs and fish 3 times a week you don’t need it? ---
**Author:** ![brovolone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e4f/32.png) [@brovolone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brovolone)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052/2 "2015-09-21T02:02:18Z")
Genetics first Everything else second Do what you can with what you have by doing your best through letting the standard food pyramid be your guide Everything else is just lint and money in someone else’s pocket ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052/3 "2015-09-21T04:13:28Z")
Whether not they have some efficacy for particular indications is, one should realize, a different question than whether or not “most people” with reasonable diets “need it.” Most people do not have osteoarthritis and those who do should be discussing adding these substances into their plan with their doctors before taking (minimally there may be interactions to be aware of). The Rotta preparation of glucosamine may be somewhat [effective](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0011704/) for reducing pain and increasing functional impairment in osteoartritis. Non-Rotta preps not. [Chondroitin](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD005614.pub2/abstract) very slight but possibly real similar impacts. Some decent data about [SAM-e](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC387830/) too. Less that I can find on fish oil and the doses that would be used to have significant anti-inflammatory effects would raise some possibilities of adverse effects, especially in someone on many of the other medications used for osteoarthritis. If someone does not have diagnosed osteoarthritis then there is no indication for these substances; if they do have diagnosed osteoarthritis then they should discuss taking them with their doctor(s) before they do. As mentioned before when you have brought up concerns about strong bones and joints, regular moderate weight-bearing exercise beginning in childhood and continuing across the lifecycle is the best way to create strong bones and strong joints. (Of course no major nutritional deficiencies being assumed.) Obesity is a particular risk for osteoarthritis. Can’t do too much about genetics. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052/4 "2015-09-21T04:35:21Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Whether not they have some efficacy for particular indications is, one should realize, a different question than whether or not “most people” with reasonable diets “need it.” Most people do not have osteoarthritis and those who do should be discussing adding these substances into their plan with their doctors before taking (minimally there may be interactions to be aware of). > > The Rotta preparation of glucosamine may be somewhat [effective](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0011704/) for reducing pain and increasing functional impairment in osteoartritis. Non-Rotta preps not. > > [Chondroitin](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD005614.pub2/abstract) very slight but possibly real similar impacts. > > Some decent data about [SAM-e](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC387830/) too. > > Less that I can find on fish oil and the doses that would be used to have significant anti-inflammatory effects would raise some possibilities of adverse effects, especially in someone on many of the other medications used for osteoarthritis. > > If someone does not have diagnosed osteoarthritis then there is no indication for these substances; if they do have diagnosed osteoarthritis then they should discuss taking them with their doctor(s) before they do. > > As mentioned before when you have brought up concerns about strong bones and joints, regular moderate weight-bearing exercise beginning in childhood and continuing across the lifecycle is the best way to create strong bones and strong joints. (Of course no major nutritional deficiencies being assumed.) Obesity is a particular risk for osteoarthritis. Can’t do too much about genetics. No I don’t mean people who have osteoartritis or arthritis. I mean people who just want strong bones and strong joints. Most people these days have some what weak joints and bones because we eat bad foods and we have very sedentary lifestyle. We probably would not need vitamin,minerals and these added stuff if people eat proper but people do not eat proper. Some vitamin,minerals and these added stuff may be good and other vitamin,minerals and these added stuff may be marketing gimmicks. > [@](#): > > Genetics first > Everything else second > > Do what you can with what you have by doing your best through letting the standard food pyramid be your guide > > Everything else is just lint and money in someone else’s pocket But we don’t eat healthy at all in today’s world as about 1 out of every 5 US adults has doctor-diagnosed of arthritis that is really bad today. Never mind people who are borderline and do not know it. I want my bones and joints to be stronger than most people. I eat fruit and vegetable 3 to 4 times a week!! And I eat eggs and fish 3 times a week!! ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052/5 "2015-09-21T11:54:53Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > Most people these days have some what weak joints and bones because we eat bad foods and we have very sedentary lifestyle. As with most of your health related threads, you seem to have reached a conclusion without any supporting evidence. Would you care to support this statement? > [@sweat209](#): > > I eat fruit and vegetable 3 to 4 times a week!! And I eat eggs and fish 3 times a week!! The FDA recommends [7 servings of fruits and vegetables as day](http://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/dga2000/document/build.htm). I’d worry about this before you think about supplements. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052/6 "2015-09-21T13:09:10Z")
Some supplement info is based on what happens if you lack ingredient X. If you do not have enough X then you may have problems with certain aspects of your health. If you already have enough X, then adding more won’t help. Those sorts of supplements are helpful for people who lack them, but not so much for people who already get enough. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052/7 "2015-09-21T13:41:38Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Less that I can find on fish oil and the doses that would be used to have significant anti-inflammatory effects would raise some possibilities of adverse effects, especially in someone on many of the other medications used for osteoarthritis. In particular, bleeding risks. I’m on (doctor ordered) high doses of fish oil, and she made sure I knew that it was something I needed to disclose to any other doctors who might want to put me on an anticoagulant in the future. Between the fish oil and a couple of others (niacin, turmeric extract, baby aspirin to reduce the niacin flushing), if I ever need an anticoagulant, I’m probably going to have to stop the supplements. (Since most of the time they won’t put you on an anticoagulant until after A Bad Thing Happens, I’m hoping the anticoagulant effect of the supplements themselves prevent that Bad Thing from ever happening.) **sweat209** , if you increase your vegetables and proteins to the recommended daily amount and eat a variety of them, and if you engage in moderate exercise with low impact aerobic exercise and strength training for 30 minutes a day, you will have given your body what it needs to be stronger than most of the bodies out there. These supplements have not been shown to prevent joint disease, but [moderate exercise has](http://www.nytimes.com/health/guides/specialtopic/physical-activity/exercise's-effects-on-bones-and-muscles.html) (high impact exercise, like running, can actually cause joint problems.) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052/8 "2015-09-21T22:38:25Z")
Exactly right **WhyNot**. Funny enough **sweat209** has been asking regarding his concerns of his “thin bones” and snapping joints for a while now, including [one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=747878) asking about exercise. In general the poster has not been too interested in the answers but others read here so there’s that. The issue of running increasing or decreasing the risk of joint problems is an interesting one. Long time runners tend to have less joint problems. Of course maybe those prone to problems never become long term runners. The [bottom line](http://www.clinicalcorrelations.org/?p=6437)seems to be that up to moderate running is of no risk and may be of benefit in preventing joint problems (and is definitely of benefit for bone strength; bones need _some_ impact: pure cyclists are at much greater risk of osteoporosis than pure runners, for example) for the typical person. All bets are off for someone with a past history of knee injury though and likely an individual’s running form and individual build matters. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052/9 "2015-09-22T21:24:20Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > In particular, bleeding risks. I’m on (doctor ordered) high doses of fish oil, and she made sure I knew that it was something I needed to disclose to any other doctors who might want to put me on an anticoagulant in the future. Between the fish oil and a couple of others (niacin, turmeric extract, baby aspirin to reduce the niacin flushing), if I ever need an anticoagulant, I’m probably going to have to stop the supplements. (Since most of the time they won’t put you on an anticoagulant until after A Bad Thing Happens, I’m hoping the anticoagulant effect of the supplements themselves prevent that Bad Thing from ever happening.) > > **sweat209** , if you increase your vegetables and proteins to the recommended daily amount and eat a variety of them, and if you engage in moderate exercise with low impact aerobic exercise and strength training for 30 minutes a day, you will have given your body what it needs to be stronger than most of the bodies out there. These supplements have not been shown to prevent joint disease, but [moderate exercise has](http://www.nytimes.com/health/guides/specialtopic/physical-activity/exercise's-effects-on-bones-and-muscles.html) (high impact exercise, like running, can actually cause joint problems.) I just have feeling that these supplements may be marketing gimmicks. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052/10 "2015-09-22T21:32:07Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > I just have feeling that these supplements may be marketing gimmicks. Go with that. Well, yes and no. Yes, the idea that everyone should take them to **prevent** joint damage is a marketing gimmick. So far, the science doesn’t support that use. Maybe that will change in the future, maybe not. As **DSeid** said, there is some evidence that these supplements may be of _some_ help to _some_ people who **already have** some joint damage. So for those who already have joint damage, it may be more than a marketing gimmick. But it sounds like that’s not you at this point. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052/11 "2015-09-22T21:39:55Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Exactly right **WhyNot**. > > Funny enough **sweat209** has been asking regarding his concerns of his “thin bones” and snapping joints for a while now, including [one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=747878) asking about exercise. In general the poster has not been too interested in the answers but others read here so there’s that. > > The issue of running increasing or decreasing the risk of joint problems is an interesting one. Long time runners tend to have less joint problems. Of course maybe those prone to problems never become long term runners. The [bottom line](http://www.clinicalcorrelations.org/?p=6437)seems to be that up to moderate running is of no risk and may be of benefit in preventing joint problems (and is definitely of benefit for bone strength; bones need _some_ impact: pure cyclists are at much greater risk of osteoporosis than pure runners, for example) for the typical person. All bets are off for someone with a past history of knee injury though and likely an individual’s running form and individual build matters. What does knees and hip making a popping noise or snapping noise have to do with this? It seems lot of people have problems with joints that make noise. [http://www.totalperformancept.com/2013/05/24/why-do-my-joints-pop/](http://www.totalperformancept.com/2013/05/24/why-do-my-joints-pop/) I know if I sit on the couch than move my joints it well than makes a popping noise :eek::eek: but if I move around it does not do that. I think my sedentary lifestyle and lack of exercise is blame for lot of problems. I know my self I feel lot better when I get up and walk around and do some stretching exercises. The snapping or popping noise may just be muscle and tendons that get cold and stiff from sitting in one position and not moving around. Do some warm up exercises and stretching exercises and move around. If some one was walking around mall for 30 minutes and it was making noise every 2 minutes well 30 minutes in mall that some thing would be very wrong with that person. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052/12 "2015-09-22T21:44:49Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Go with that. > > Well, yes and no. Yes, the idea that everyone should take them to **prevent** joint damage is a marketing gimmick. So far, the science doesn’t support that use. Maybe that will change in the future, maybe not. > > As **DSeid** said, there is some evidence that these supplements may be of _some_ help to _some_ people who **already have** some joint damage. So for those who already have joint damage, it may be more than a marketing gimmick. But it sounds like that’s not you at this point. I think you and DSeid think that people who have joint damage or some problems with persons joints that some how having it will than heel the problem. That does sound like a marketing gimmick if it claims it can do that. But strong joints and strong bones is other thing together. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052/13 "2015-09-22T22:06:56Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > I think you and DSeid think that people who have joint damage or some problems with persons joints that some how having it will than heel the problem. That does sound like a marketing gimmick if it claims it can do that. > > But strong joints and strong bones is other thing together. Me? I don’t think nothin’. People who have researched it think that. **DSeid** gave you links to studies in post 3 “Strong joints and strong bones” is the marketing gimmick. No one has been able to show it gives you that. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052/14 "2015-09-23T02:57:15Z")
Personally I generally stop reading once this op starts losing his grammar and spelling ability (again) but **WhyNot** a minor clarification: those evidence-based reviews do not show that these supplements do anything to heal joint damage. They demonstrate that they may reduce pain and increase function, that they may provide some modest degree of symptom relief. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052/15 "2015-09-23T03:17:25Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Personally I generally stop reading once this op starts losing his grammar and spelling ability (again) but **WhyNot** a minor clarification: those evidence-based reviews do not show that these supplements do anything to heal joint damage. They demonstrate that they may reduce pain and increase function, that they may provide some modest degree of symptom relief. Ah, gotcha. On both counts. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052/16 "2015-09-23T05:40:41Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Me? I don’t think nothin’. People who have researched it think that. **DSeid** gave you links to studies in post 3 > > “Strong joints and strong bones” is the marketing gimmick. No one has been able to show it gives you that. It sounded too much like a marketing gimmicks!! That is why I ask. > [@](#): > > Glucosamine: This is one of the best supplements for knee joints. This fatty acid is a part of cartilage and other components of the joints. Glucosamine helps rebuild the bones and prevent cartilage wear and tear. It also prevents inflammation of the joints and adjoining muscles. > [@](#): > > Chondroitin Sulfate: This is used with glucosamine, helps build the cartilage, and prevents pain in thejoints. If chondroitin sulfate and glucosamine are taken in conjunction as supplements for joint pain, the pain may be abated and the joints may become stronger. > [@](#): > > Omega-3 Fatty Acids: Omega-3 fatty acids help reduce the wear and tear of the joints. These fatty acids prevent the enzymes called collagenases from damaging the joints. Omega-3 is popularly used as a supplement for the knee joints and is known to reduce inflammation and strengthen the tendons. > [@](#): > > SAMe: S-adenosyl-methionine is a co-enzyme for production of body tissue. This coenzyme helps repair the joints and reduces inflammation and pain. This is mostly used in the treatment of arthritis. It is also known to reduce muscle stiffness, muscle pain, and fatigue. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052/17 "2015-09-23T06:42:06Z")
I actually have osteoarthritis. My PCP suggested I try Glucosamine-Chondroitin (he had to write out the name - no way I was going to decipher the spelling). It actually had a bit of an effect - or it was the Placbo effect - don’t know. It took a bit off the edge of the pain - kinda like holding your hands over your ears - a bit of difference, but not that much. I take calcium and iron supplements - for bones and blood (anemic). I have no idea if they do any good, but there is no adverse effect, so I continue. ---
**Author:** ![OleOneEye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f14d63/32.png) [@OleOneEye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OleOneEye)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052/18 "2015-09-23T09:50:24Z")
Does no one remember that “joint” is a (rare, probably out of date) slang for “penis”? 'Cause the thread title made me giggle. What man _doesn’t_ want a strong joint! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052/19 "2015-09-23T11:59:52Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > I eat fruit and vegetable 3 to 4 times a week!! And I eat eggs and fish 3 times a week!! You know what really helps? Fish eggs 3 times a week. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052/20 "2015-09-23T12:05:40Z")
How can someone so concerned about such things believe vegetables 3-4 times a week is anywhere near enough for good health, never mind healthy joints? Shouldn’t you address that before worrying about the rest? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-having-this-really-work-for-strong-bones-and-strong-joint/732052.md?page=2)