Does HE have to pay for UNWANTED kid?

Great Debates
41

Not all women would be prepared to have an abortion, for moral or personal reasons. If you father a child you are the child’s father - surely that isn’t hard to understand? If you absolutely, positively don’t want to have a kid with someone, don’t sleep with them. Sure we all take chances, hoping it won’t happen - but that’s our decision and as such we should accept the consequences, rather than bleating about it and trying to worm out of it.

Trying to pretend that you’re not obligated to a child that you helped to create is just shirking your responsibilites, in about the most pathetically craven way possible.

42

If the guy doesn’t want kids, wants nothing to do with kids, etc. etc. Why doesn’t he just get the snip and be done with it? No further problems.

Regards.

Testy.

43

I keep hearing ‘If they didn’t want kids, they should have kept their dick in their pants’, but nobody is saying that maybe the women shouldn’t have had sex with a guy they don’t know wants to raise children by her. It works both ways. The way I see it, both sexes have different responsibilities when it comes to sex.

Men, if you have sex with a woman she might get pregnant, even if she claims otherwise. If this happens, you will have ZERO say in how the pregnancy turns out.

Women, if you have sex with a man you might get pregnant, even if the he claims otherwise. If this happens you will have to decide how the pregnancy turns out.

44

True, but so far we haven’t had any women posting how unfair it was that she had to help raise a kid when she hadn’t wanted children with that guy.

45

Have you even bothered to read the posts in this thread by women which say exactly that? Didn’t think so. In case you haven’t noticed Badtz, quite a few of the women who have contributed to this thread have made the point that in most instances women are perfectly capable of preventing themselves from becoming parents but for a variety of reasons do nothing to exercise that choice, just as men have that same option and elect not to take that responsibility for a variety of reasons.

How the fuck do “both sexes have different responsibilities when it comes to sex”? Please explain that statement before I assume that you’re just another misogynist who’s gonna play the “blue balls” card any time now to justify why women “deserve what they get” and “why men are victims”.

I’m so sorry that women tied you down and made you “donate” your sperm guys -really, I lie awake every night worrying about the injustice of it all.

I don’t give a rat’s ass where you put your dicks, as long as the woman/man/animal/fruit concerned is a consenting adult, but don’t ever try to imply that consent abdicates you from the responsibility for what your premature ejaculations create.

46

And by the way, if you fuckdrops are so irresponsible when it comes to taking your share of the responsibility concerning pregnancy, I hope you won’t have the gall to play the “he/she” lied card should you ever find yourselves infected with gonorrhaea/syphillis/hep ABCD or E/Chlamydia/HIV or any other of the sexually transmissible diseases you leave yourself open to when you don’t take the responsibility for your own personal sexual activity.

Unwanted parenthood, quite frankly, is the least of your worries.

47

That’s probably because if a woman gets pregnant by a guy she doesn’t want to have children by, she doesn’t have to raise a kid.

48

I thought I already explained the differences in responsibility when it comes to sex. The woman has the responsibility of deciding the results of any pregnancy that might occur. This is DIFFERENT from what responsibilities a man has - he doesn’t have that choice.

What the FUCK does that have to do with blue-balls, and why do you feel like you should assume people are misogynists because they disagree with you on this topic? I know guys have the ability to choose not to have sex. I assumed we were talking about consensual sex here, not date-rape.

49

This old chestnut again? The kid exists, yes? The kid needs to be paid for, yes? Now who should do that - the taxpayer who had almost ZERO responsibility for the kid’s existance or the man who knew that a kid was a possible outcome and could, if he wished, have ensured no kid via a condom or vasectomy but chose to proceed in his actions anyway?

Or maybe we should just force the woman to have an abortion instead?

Yeah! And it’s terrible when they stop “pouffing” up their hair too, ain’t it Courier?

pan

50

I would like to apologise to both the mods and my fellow posters (even those with whom I disagree) for using the f***drops term in this forum - it was inappropriate and unnecessary.

But Badtz, can you provide any supporting citations whatsoever for this statement of yours?

While you have made sweeping generalisations about the moral/ethic/motive/shortcomings of women in general, you seem perfectly happy to ignore the fact that for reasons of personal values/religious beliefs/unwillingness to break the law/or just plain fear not all women are equally able to make the same kinds of choices that I - a very outspoken pro-choice advocate - might make.

But gee, golly, whizz - a woman can always decide to carry a child to term and have someone else raise it. I asked you several posts ago to tell us all which options are available to women who find themselves pregnant and without a happy, co-operative partner that do not involve physical action on the woman’s part Badtz - you have yet to answer that question.

51

What the FUCK does that have to do with blue-balls, and why do you feel like you should assume people are misogynists because they disagree with you on this topic? I know guys have the ability to choose not to have sex. I assumed we were talking about consensual sex here, not date-rape.

You have chosen to portray men as “victims” in this thread Badtz. As people without choices. What I am trying to point out to you and others - obviously inadequately and inadequately - is that you simply cannot play the “victim” or “trapped” card in the case of consenting sex between adults. Sorry, you just can’t do it. Male or female. If you are having heterosexual sex with a partner who isn’t infertile, then the risk of pregnancy - however low - always exists. You can’t protect yourself against the chance odds of contraceptive failure. It happens occasionally, and it’s traumatic for all concerned when it does.

I have not made any excuses whatsoever for women conceiving children for the sole purpose of manipulating men - I will never become an apologist for behaviour which I believe to be empirically wrong. Having said that, I also think that you guys had better drag yourselves into the 21st Century and pretty quickly; or better still, do us all a favour and don’t breed (I’ll even pay for your vascectomies).

52

Sorry, but this is just bleating. Pure and simple.

What would make the situation better for you, Badtz? Should we make it so that men can force women to abort, against their wishes, because the man didn’t really want children. Or should a man be able to force a women to carry a child that she doesn’t want? Is that what’s upsetting you - that a women can choose not to carry a child, or carry it, as she wishes.

Well them’s the breaks.

If you sleep with a women, she may become pregnant. If so, you are partly responsible. Deal with it.

People who whine about having to meet their responsibilities are children.

53

I’m very pro-choice. What would make me happy would be if men were given some choice as to whether or not they want to be responsible for the life of someone else after a pregnancy has occurred. I think if a woman wants the biological father of her fetus to be financially responsible for it she should either prove that he either claimed he wanted to have a child by her, or that he refused to help the woman have an abortion or have it adopted after being notified that their sex resulted in a pregnancy.

54

Neither does the father. No parent is forced to “raise” a child.

Each parent, however, is required by law to pay the costs of raising the child, unless and until both parents reqlinquish their parental rights, either explicitly or constructively, and the child is adopted by someone else.

BOTH PARENTS MUST CONSENT TO AN ADOPTION. Hear that, Badtz? I can only repeat this fact of law in so many threads.

55

People,

Please remember that this is Great Debates, NOT the Pit, and act accordingly. I realize that this is an emotional subject and emotions and tempers will rise, but watch what you say.

Thanks to reprise for realizing that she needed to apologize for her words, and thanks to the person (you know who you are) who alerted Coldfire about the OP.

Now everyone behave, this is a genuine debate. Or take it to the Pit if you have to cuss at someone.

Lynn
Administrator
For the Straight Dope

56

All men have that choice. To exercise it, all they have to do is not sleep with someone. If they should go ahead and sleep with someone, they’re jointly responsible for the consequences.

So a man is only responsible if he didn’t help her organise an abortion or adoption. Has it occured to you that, for perfectly valid reasons, some women could not consider aborting their children, or putting them up for adoption. That does not absolve the father of his responsibilities.

It really is very simple. Absolutely sure you don’t want kids - vasectomy. Only sure you don’t want kids with a particular women - don’t sleep with her. Otherwise, accept the consequences of your actions.

57

I mostly agree with this statement. If a man has sexual intercourse with a woman then he is definitely responsible for dealing with the situation, but that responsibility may not automatically condemn his to eighteen years of payments. The man could opt to pay for an abortion. The woman could refuse the abortion, but then she is taking the entire financial burden of the child onto herself. This is one way of equalizing the dichotomy mother and father responsibility. As far as a know, the current laws favor the mother: the father must pay child support even if he wanted and offered to pay for an abortion. Both the man and the woman are equally responsible for a pregnancy, no matter which partner was using or claming to use birth control, but the current laws are anything but equitable. The man needs more choices and input into the decision making over a pregnancy. A man shouldn’t have the authority to tell a woman she can’t have an abortion and a woman shouldn’t have the authority to force a man to pay child support once he has offered to pay for an abortion. If the man and woman can’t agree to this, then they should abstain from sexual intercourse.

In the OP I think the man should not have been made to pay. The mother failed in her responsibility to tell the father, a huge failing IMHO, so he could have made an informed decision at the time of pregnancy. By not telling him in a timely manner the woman should have relinquished her rights. I would favor a statute of limitations in such cases. I know the objections. The child be damned. There are many children being raise by bad and incompetent mothers, that is just a condition of life, and there is no moral supremacy by asserting the wellbeing of the child over the wellbeing of the father’s finances.

58

Hmm, Pyrrhonist… ya know, I’ve looked at your answer from several angles, but it ain’t no good - I still don’t see how that’ll stop that taxpayer from footing the bill. You’ll have to spell that bit out for me.

I remind you: SOMEONE has to pay for this kid. Who’s it gonna be, assuming that the mother alone cannot afford it? You? Me? Or the father who actually bore partial responsibility for bringing it into the world?

pan

59

You’re the second person after Badtz to put forward the idea that if a man has offered to pay for the abortion, his responsiblity is absolved. I have to say I find it offensive that people should honestly believe that as long as they’ve offered to sort out a termination, they’re off the hook.

I’ve said it before, but I’ll repeat myself. Many women would not be capable of aborting their children, or putting them up for abortion. That viewpoint may be in complete contrast to the man’s, but if so what the hell did he sleep with her for? No one forced him to do so.

As for these strange complaints that some women misled a poor guy into it - why the hell did he have sex with someone if he knew them so badly. Sure, I’ve done it too, and on a few occasions I’ve had the dreaded “I’m six weeks late” conversation. Scared the hell out of me, but I didn’t give the girls involved a list of clinic numbers and a cheque.

If you decide to have sex with someone, you’re talking a chance. The choice was yours. If you can’t live up to the consequences of your choices, you are not an adult.

Absolutely right.

60

‘If you play, you pay.’

It sounds like good advice, but there is much involved with the powerful urge of sex. Those of you who are advocating the ‘keep it in your pants, bub’ must be over 30 because below that age, the sexual drive is really powerful. Why do you think so many with STDs are under 30? Especially if there is alcohol involved.

The ‘both are responsible’ group here sound pretty logical but in the OP didn’t he say that the guy up front told the lady that he did not want kids? Then, did she not secretly stop using birth control because she did? What about the 5 year period where this woman apparently never told the man that she had his child and, when money got tight, then she went after him for child support.

This sounds to me like the man made things real clear up front, that the lady must have agreed, then changed her mind without telling him. So, she wanted a child regardless of his feelings, she also knew they were not married, and, since she was not showing when they broke up, or else he would have known, it makes me figure she knew they were going to split. It sounds like a conspiracy she created to have a kid.

Looking at it this way, figuring in her failure to contact him for 5 years and then only doing so when she needed cash, it seems to me that the father should not have been held liable for anything. Originally, she was the only one wanting a child and took secret steps to conceive one. Her actions afterwards determine that she had no plans to let the father know he had a child because she wanted nothing to do with him, until suddenly she wanted additional money.

It seems to me that he acted responsible and was tricked.
I don’t think he should have to have paid anything.

I’m not sure of the child’s rights, but he might or might not have known who his real dad was, and either way, the actions of the mother affect him, not the actions of the father, who was out of the picture for 5 years.