# Does Heinz have any legal recourse for cheap ketchup in its bottles? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 28, 2001, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562 "2001-08-28T18:11:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![schplebordnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@schplebordnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/schplebordnik)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562/21 "2001-08-29T03:12:46Z")
Does the restaurant patron have a cause of action? Probably not. Does Heinz. Certainly – under the Lanham Act (aka federal Trademark law). My guess is that since most of the examples above indicate that most restaurants use Heinz to refill, Heinz probably has some sort of trademark policing program. Much the way Coke does. Which is why in restaurants and airlines when you say “can I have a Coke” they often say “is Pepsi OK?” ---
**Author:** ![g8rguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@g8rguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/g8rguy)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562/22 "2001-08-29T03:24:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Who died and made you Ketchup God? I pour ketchup on almost everything: potato chips, pizza, scrambled eggs. And to think: I thought my friend who puts ketchup on rice is weird… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562/23 "2001-08-29T14:31:38Z")
I put ketchup on potato chips-just like eating it on fries. Fenris, sorry, but since I have never tasted homemade, I cannot answer your question. But we, in the Ketchup Kapital of the US, do not appreciate Hunt’s. ---
**Author:** ![Mac\_Guffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mac\_Guffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Guffin)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562/24 "2001-08-29T15:48:01Z")
I should probibly start a different thread about this, but Here I go anyway. **WHICH IS IT?!?!** Ketchup, or catsup? I have seen it spelled BOTH ways on bottles. I must know! ---
**Author:** ![Threadkiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@Threadkiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Threadkiller)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562/25 "2001-08-29T16:04:21Z")
**particlewill** : WHICH IS IT?!?! Ketchup, or catsup? Cecil says: [How come they call it “ketchup” sometimes and “catsup” other times?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_102a.html) ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562/26 "2001-08-29T16:10:04Z")
I posed this same question to my friend, who just finished law school recently. This was his reponse: "The Federal Trademark Dilution Act of 1995 protects “famous” marks against unauthorized commercial use, “if such use begins after the mark has become famous and causes dilution of the distinctive quality of the mark.” "Dilution means the lessening of the capacity of a famous mark to identify and distinguish goods or services, regardless of the presence or absence of (1) competition between the owner of the famous mark and other parties, or (2) likelihood of confusion, mistake, or deception." The following three categories of use are exempted from the above liability: comparative ads, non-commercial use of the mark, and news. Perhaps it can be argued that part of a diner’s success is the quality of food it produces and that this quality is directly affected by the condiments made available by the diner. Therefore, the diner’s use does not fall under the second exception above and is considered trademark dilution." ---
**Author:** ![Mac\_Guffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mac\_Guffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Guffin)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562/27 "2001-08-29T16:13:17Z")
Yes and a fat lot of good that particular article did. Cecil basicaly ends up saying “I don’t know.” He says it well, but in the end we are still left wondering… ---
**Author:** ![Threadkiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@Threadkiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Threadkiller)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562/28 "2001-08-29T17:10:47Z")
I cheerfully admit that Cecil’s column left something to be desired (if you desire definitive answers anyway). However, he is not the only one who is unsure on this question. See the FAQ from [Planet Ketchup!](http://www.ketchup.wonderland.org/) > [@](#): > > What’s the difference between Ketchup and Catsup? And what is Fancy Ketchup? > > Well, this one is up for debate. As far as I am concerned they are the same thing. Catsup is a sauce, Ketchup is a sauce. One opinion I heard that was Catsup was the less commercial far tastier version of Ketchup. As for Fancy Ketchup, I would be keen to hear from people with some opinions, but I think Fancy Ketchup is similar to Catsup, again just another name. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562/29 "2001-08-29T17:23:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Fenris, sorry, but since I have never tasted homemade, I cannot answer your question. \*\* Well great. Now I’m lying awake at nights, worrying about the possiblity of eternal damnation from home-made catsup. \ My peace of mind has been destroyed! 😛 😉 Fenris ---
**Author:** ![that\_darn\_cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/59ef9b/32.png) [@that\_darn\_cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/that_darn_cat)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562/30 "2001-08-29T17:32:02Z")
**Guinastasia** I agree with yu about Hunt’s, but sadly no ketchup is made in Pittsburgh anymore. ☹ [http://www.post-gazette.com/businessnews/20010801soup0801bnp3.asp](http://www.post-gazette.com/businessnews/20010801soup0801bnp3.asp) So, do you like the ketchup-flavored chips? Herrs and Heinz, a match made in Heaven. 🙂 [http://www.herrs.com/new/new\_heinz.html](http://www.herrs.com/new/new_heinz.html) ---
**Author:** ![RainbowDragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@RainbowDragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RainbowDragon)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562/31 "2001-08-29T18:07:36Z")
I don’t know how much of you have noticed a change in ketchup containers at your local restaurants. Slowly the glass bottles of old are being replaced by red plastic squeeze bottles of the future. Some of the features include: - The cap is sealed to the top of the bottle. A restaurant can’t refill the bottle unless it wants to spend time trying to pour ketchup through the little opening. - The bottle is entirely red so there is no way of telling by looking on the outside if there is sufficient ketchup or not. An empty bottle looks just the same as a full one. - There is a small red circle sticker on the cap that acts as a seal. Break the seal and you have a new bottle of ketchup in front of you. Reusing glass containers with visible labels is icky. It means no one as washed and sterilized the bottle (because if they did the label would certainly have come off). When you see restaurant customers put their mouths on ketchup and steak sauce bottles, it really makes you hope that somewhere down the line that bottle gets replaced soon. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562/32 "2001-08-29T18:24:32Z")
[hijack] Just wanted to add that its illegal for restaruants to marry half empty bottles of ketchup from the table. Violates health code. Don’t know why I feel this belonged in this thread, not directed at anyone. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Robb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Robb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robb)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562/33 "2001-08-29T18:37:52Z")
**Jackknifed** , your friend is heading you in the right direction. Still, I think this is better handled by good, old-fashioned unfair competition law. You can begin doing some research on it [here](http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/unfair_competition.html). Trademark dilution refers to a different misuse of trademarks. I found some overview of it [here](http://www.ladas.com/BULLETINS/1996/FederalDilution.html) and [there](http://www.bitlaw.com/trademark/dilution.html). Both pages refer to dilution as “blurring” or “tarnishment”. These refer to either weakening the link between the famous mark and its product, or strengthening a link between the famous mark and an inferior product. Its this second one that it could conceivably be, but the situation you ask doesn’t seem to me to fit very well. By replacing Heinz with an inferior product, you are not linking Heinz to another product, you are deceiving people as to the quality of Heinz ketchup. This still seems to me better handled by unfair competition law, rather than trademark dilution. ---
**Author:** ![Threadkiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@Threadkiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Threadkiller)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562/34 "2001-08-29T18:59:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Omniscient \* > its illegal for restaruants to **marry** half empty bottles of ketchup from the table. Violates health code. Emphasis mine. If the highlighted word was supposed to be “carry” does this mean that they can’t remove partially filled bottles? Or were you trying to say that they can’t _refill_ bottles? ---
**Author:** ![pezpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@pezpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pezpunk)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562/35 "2001-08-29T19:10:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Threadkiller \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Omniscient \* > > its illegal for restaruants to **marry** half empty bottles of ketchup from the table. Violates health code. > > Emphasis mine. > > If the highlighted word was supposed to be “carry” does this mean that they can’t remove partially filled bottles? Or were you trying to say that they can’t _refill_ bottles? \*\* Marry (v) = To unite two single (and _sexy_) ketchup sources into one loving, happy, and _sexy_ ketchup source. (restaraunt speak) ---
**Author:** ![bcullman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bcullman/32/8207_2.png) [@bcullman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bcullman)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562/36 "2001-08-29T19:38:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Using ANY other ketchup than Heinz is a mortal sin, and you will burn in condiment Hell. > > 😃 \*\* - Your such a good little consumer. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bcullman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bcullman/32/8207_2.png) [@bcullman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bcullman)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562/37 "2001-08-29T19:38:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Using ANY other ketchup than Heinz is a mortal sin, and you will burn in condiment Hell. > > 😃 \*\* - You’re such a good little consumer. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Elvis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@Elvis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elvis)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562/38 "2001-08-29T19:42:04Z")
1. Heinz is the only ketchup worth a damn. Hunts is just gross, as is all that “store brand” junk. As for “homemade” ketchup, your fears of damnation are justified. 2. The Herr’s/Heinz combo is one of the greatest culinary inventions of the past 50 years. 3. Surely no one maintains that it’s psycho to put ketchup on a burger or hot dog. Such an insistence would be downright unamerican. ---
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562/39 "2001-08-29T20:42:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Elvis \* > \*\*3. Surely no one maintains that it’s psycho to put ketchup on a burger or hot dog. Such an insistence would be downright unamerican. \*\* Burgers, sure. Ketchup on hot dogs is for commies and kids under 12. Which one are you? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Elvis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@Elvis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elvis)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2001, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562/40 "2001-08-29T21:01:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by frogstein \* > \*\*Burgers, sure. Ketchup on hot dogs is for commies and kids under 12. Which one are you? 🙂 \*\* I am an 11 year old commie. Got a problem with that, bub? Actually, I lean more in the mustard and sauerkraut direction, but there’s nothing more American than kids putting ketchup on their hot dogs. I’d say its right up there with baseball, apple pie, and fumbling around with your date’s prom dress in the back of a Chevrolet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-heinz-have-any-legal-recourse-for-cheap-ketchup-in-its-bottles/78562.md?page=3)