# Does her claim of Satanic influence make her less credible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 17, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549 "2014-02-17T17:41:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549/81 "2014-02-18T01:40:08Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Why is the McMartin preschool case coming to mind here? > > Funny how they never found any of the caves, tunnels or airplanes the kids were talking about. You know, the ones where they were taken and subjected to ritual sexual abuse. I came to mention this, and to me it is noticeable that the OP did not bother to reply to this. And here is another vote in favor of **WhyNot** ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549/82 "2014-02-18T01:45:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, to be fair – she **might** be a Satanist – of some new form she invented herself. If there’s blood on your face in your Facebook photo…you might just be a Satanist. If your athame doubles as your steak knife…you might just be a Satanist. If you have an entire spice cabinet, and you don’t cook…you might just be a Satanist. If you commit blasphemy in the plural…you might just be a Satanist. If you know exactly what is wrong with _The Craft_, but it’s still your favorite occult movie because they got it closer than anyone else…you might just be a Satanist. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549/83 "2014-02-18T01:52:44Z")
If you shop at Hot Topic… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549/84 "2014-02-18T01:57:05Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > _snort_ No, no you don’t. You have a decent Circle or two, I’ll grant you that. But you aren’t close to the occult/neopagan capital of the US. A fair number of the larger orgs have chapters here. Don’t know anything about them as far as size since I was never interested in joining, but I heard the OTO was fairly significant here. One or two other groups that have major chapters in one or two big cities and then one…here for some reason, like Aurum Solis. As for Wiccans, damn but those groups spawn, split, disband and rename themselves something fierce. But I don’t believe that we’re any kind of ‘top occult’ city. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549/85 "2014-02-18T02:03:39Z")
I’ve been wondering why **ArielBurns** is so convinced that Satanic ritual abuse is real. **Ariel** do you claim to be a victim of SRA? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549/86 "2014-02-18T02:12:12Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I’ve been wondering why **ArielBurns** is so convinced that Satanic ritual abuse is real. **Ariel** do you claim to be a victim of SRA? I think her’s was more of a “Pay attention to me! I bring inside information of some vague threat, but I can’t give you any details because they are secret!!” type of missive. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549/87 "2014-02-18T02:19:56Z")
> [@andros](#): > > If you shop at Hot Topic… 🙂 That makes you a vampire, not a Satanist! Sheesh! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549/88 "2014-02-18T02:20:33Z")
That’s another thing I’m not clear on. What gender does **Ariel** identify as. Historically, Ariel has been a man’s name. In Shakespeare’s Tempest, Ariel is male. Ariel Sharon also springs to mind. But since Disney’s Little Mermaid, Ariel seems to have become a woman’s name. BTW- How does Philadelphia rate as an occult city? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549/89 "2014-02-18T02:20:57Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > If you have an entire spice cabinet, and you don’t cook…you might just be a Satanist. Or a Yuppie. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549/90 "2014-02-18T02:23:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Or a Yuppie. I got a whole list of yuppie pagan jokes. Don’t make me use them. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549/91 "2014-02-18T02:25:57Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > That’s another thing I’m not clear on. What gender does **Ariel** identify as. Historically, Ariel has been a man’s name. In Shakespeare’s Tempest, Ariel is male. Ariel Sharon also springs to mind. But since Disney’s Little Mermaid, Ariel seems to have become a woman’s name. Pretty much this. GENDER: Masculine & Feminine USAGE: Hebrew, English, French, Biblical, Biblical Greek OTHER SCRIPTS: אֲרִיאֵל (Hebrew), Αριηλ (Ancient Greek) PRONOUNCED: AR-ee-əl (English), ER-ee-əl (English), AY-ree-əl (English) [key] Meaning & History Means “lion of God” in Hebrew. In the Old Testament it is used as another name for the city of Jerusalem. Shakespeare used it as the name of a spirit in his play ‘The Tempest’ (1611), and one of the moons of Uranus bears this name in his honour. As an English name, it became more common for females in the 1980s, especially after it was used for the title character in the Walt Disney film ‘The Little Mermaid’ (1989). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549/92 "2014-02-18T02:26:00Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > In Shakespeare’s Tempest, Ariel is male. Is it? I only ever saw one production, and a woman played the part. **Caliban** is male, certes. > [@](#): > > PROSPERO: Thou most lying slave, > Whom stripes may move, not kindness! I have used thee, > Filth as thou art, with human care; and lodged thee > In mine own cell, till thou didst seek to violate > The honour of my child. > > CALIBAN: O ho, O ho! would ’t had been done! > Thou didst prevent me; I had peopled else > This isle with Calibans. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549/93 "2014-02-18T02:35:26Z")
Ariel is male and an enslaved spirit. Prospero was yelling at Caliban for going after Prospero’s daughter (whose name escapes me at the moment) not for going after Ariel. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549/94 "2014-02-18T02:36:22Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > _snort_ No, no you don’t. You have a decent Circle or two, I’ll grant you that. But you aren’t close to the occult/neopagan capital of the US. On second thought. Capital? No. However; _On April 9, 2011 the StarTribune was quoted: “The Twin Cities metro area – dubbed “Paganistan” by Wiccans for having one of the highest witch concentrations in the country—has an estimated 20,000 witches who meet in 236 different covens or groups…” in an article about a Wiccan prisoner suing the State for his religious freedom_ [www.paganistan.com](http://www.paganistan.com) says we’re the second largest pagan community in America after San Fran. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549/95 "2014-02-18T02:37:50Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Ariel is male and an enslaved spirit. Prospero was yelling at Caliban for going after Prospero’s daughter (whose name escapes me at the moment) not for going after Ariel. Miranda. Which shows that Caliban was male and het, whatever that fairy Ariel might have been. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549/96 "2014-02-18T02:39:11Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > On second thought. Capital? No. However; > > _On April 9, 2011 the StarTribune was quoted: “The Twin Cities metro area – dubbed “Paganistan” by Wiccans for having one of the highest witch concentrations in the country—has an estimated 20,000 witches who meet in **236 different covens or groups** …” in an article about a Wiccan prisoner suing the State for his religious freedom_ So, the witches have been sent to Coventry. [rimshot] ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549/97 "2014-02-18T02:50:15Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > On second thought. Capital? No. However; > > _On April 9, 2011 the StarTribune was quoted: “The Twin Cities metro area – dubbed “Paganistan” by Wiccans for having one of the highest witch concentrations in the country—has an estimated 20,000 witches who meet in 236 different covens or groups…” in an article about a Wiccan prisoner suing the State for his religious freedom_ > > [www.paganistan.com](http://www.paganistan.com) says we’re the second largest pagan community in America after San Fran. I will defer to the StarTribune. I’m probably too quick to imagine my own experiences as the norm, which is that more than 2 dozen of my neopagan pals left Minneapolis a decade ago for Asheville (first) and Portland (second) and now Hawaii. They indicated that the scene in Minneapolis was dying. Glad to see it resuscitated. 🙂 I don’t know a single state that isn’t represented among us. The OP is right about one thing: there are more of us than most people think, if we’re counting neopagans and “occultists” together. Far fewer “Satanists,” though, whether we’re talking CoS or Satanic Panic. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549/98 "2014-02-18T02:58:35Z")
Well, as I said, those groups die, split, fracture, scatter… reform, rename, change, etc. Can’t find a trace of the fairly sizable Blue Star variant group that my ex-wife’s best friend helped run (she’s the one who performed our wedding) and which I ran into other people associated with after my divorce. Seems to have vanished completely, though I can find a couple of names associated with other groups and trads now (without much effort). Even back then (2002-3), talking to those people was a spaghetti bowl of connections, old and dissolved groups, splinters, etc. Wherever you find 2 Pagans, you’ll find 3 currently existing and 20 old and defunct groups. Even the Ceremonial types I knew had each been members of at least 3-4 different groups over the years. Which was one of the secondary reasons I wasn’t particularly interested in joining any of the orders. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549/99 "2014-02-18T03:00:10Z")
But, to go back to the OP, not a fucking one of these groups is ‘satanic’ in even the most remote sense of what the OP meant. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549/100 "2014-02-18T03:09:42Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > But, to go back to the OP, not a fucking one of these groups is ‘satanic’ in even the most remote sense of what the OP meant. I’ve known a lot of generic Earth worshippin’ treehuggers. I know some true Wiccans (Gardnerian and Alexandrian). I know Feris and Faeries and Fairys. I know Golden Dawn and OTO and Hermetics. I know Egyptian Reconstructionists, Asatru, CoGs, CAWs and CUUPS. I know Druids, Dianics and Discordians (oh, my!). I know Ifa, Santeria, Voudoun…Red Path, Lakota, Cherokee and Sioux… you name it, we’ve probably shared a bonfire or three. I haven’t run across a Satanist since college 20 years ago. I won’t say they don’t exist. Obviously, they do, and we’ve got a couple Dopers who are or were CoS members. But they’re vanishingly rare, even in a subculture of subcultures. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-her-claim-of-satanic-influence-make-her-less-credible/681549.md?page=6)