# Does HIV cause AIDS? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 5, 2002, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-hiv-cause-aids/101917 "2002-04-05T03:27:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-hiv-cause-aids/101917/1 "2002-04-05T03:27:41Z")
See, I always thought HIV caused AIDS. But in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=107648) thread, the topic of discussion is that some groups don’t believe this, and that the issue has recieved some academic backing. What kind of academic backing? What proof is there that it does (other than the obvious)? What proof is there that is doesn’t? ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-hiv-cause-aids/101917/2 "2002-04-05T04:26:39Z")
We’ve discussed this a number of times here on the SDMB. You might want to do a search and find the other threads. There is very convincing evidence that HIV causes AIDS. The proof gets stronger as specific drugs interfering with actions of the virus allow people who were dying to recover and live well for many more years. Here is a link that outlines some of the scientific evidence that HIV is responsible for AIDS: [http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/hivaids.htm](http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/hivaids.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-hiv-cause-aids/101917/3 "2002-04-05T05:02:55Z")
[Here is one such thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=83870) (as mentioned by **JillGat** ) ---
**Author:** ![Tedster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@Tedster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tedster)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-hiv-cause-aids/101917/4 "2002-04-05T05:25:22Z")
There are a number of folks from SA that believe fucking a virgin will cure HIV infection. Sadly, there’s an epidemic of infant rape down there as a result. Yes, you read that right. Infant rape. I wouldn’t pay too much attention to medical pronouncements from folks like that. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-hiv-cause-aids/101917/5 "2002-04-05T07:00:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tedster \* > \*\*There are a number of folks from SA that believe fucking a virgin will cure HIV infection. Sadly, there’s an epidemic of infant rape down there as a result. Yes, you read that right. Infant rape. > > I wouldn’t pay too much attention to medical pronouncements from folks like that. \*\* However, these are not the people mentioned in the OP. And this belief is widespread in many parts of Africa, a desperate response to an horrific pandemic in a vaccuum of information or alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-hiv-cause-aids/101917/6 "2002-04-05T11:36:24Z")
Sadly it is this research that President Mbeki is using as backing for his decision not to provide retro-viral drugs to HIV-positive pregnant mothers, as reported in [this news story](http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,7369,652082,00.html), in spite of a court order ordering him to do so and an ever increasing [HIV epidemic](http://www.uct.ac.za/depts/mmi/jmoodie/anc0.html) in the country: > [@](#): > > Mr Mbeki has attempted to quell criticism abroad by saying that while he questions the link between HIV and Aids, the only obstacles to treating the disease are a lack of resources and the need to test drugs. But at home, the government’s continued refusal to allow the universal distribution of medicines that can prevent HIV-positive mothers from passing the virus on to their babies - despite a high court ruling ordering it to provide the drugs - is driving a growing wave of condemnation of Mr Mbeki. Sites like [this one](http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/) and [this other one](http://www.blancmange.net/tmh/hivcont2.html) are in support of this viewpoint. Make of it what you will… me, it saddens ☹ Gp ---
**Author:** ![Andy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Andy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-hiv-cause-aids/101917/7 "2002-04-05T11:45:44Z")
This wouldn’t be the same Mbeki who came out in favour of Mugabe after the Zimbabwe “elections” would it? ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-hiv-cause-aids/101917/8 "2002-04-05T13:11:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Andy \* > \*\*This wouldn’t be the same Mbeki who came out in favour of Mugabe after the Zimbabwe “elections” would it? \*\* ☹ ☹ ::sighs:: :mad: Sometimes I am embarrased to be South African… ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-hiv-cause-aids/101917/9 "2002-04-05T13:17:22Z")
Other times it is my spelling that makes me embarrassed… :o ---
**Author:** ![jonp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@jonp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonp)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-hiv-cause-aids/101917/10 "2002-04-07T06:58:13Z")
There is an excellent book, Impure Science: AIDS, Activism, and the Politics of Knowledge by Steve Epstein, that sheds light on this issue. Epstein suggests that HIV-doesn’t cause-AIDS theories attracted support because the media and prominent scientists announced that HIV was the cause of AIDS long before sufficient proof was found for that statement. Epstein documents this by doing a content analysis of New York Times articles and showing how the articles would use HIV and “the AIDS virus.” In other words, the scientists were right in announcing that HIV caused AIDS, but they didn’t have the proof for it when the announcement came out. The doubts about HIV causing AIDS arose, because of the difficulties of proving that HIV satisfied Koch’s postulates. Koch’s postulates state that a disease causing microorganism must fulfill these four conditions: 1. The microorganism must be found in all cases of the disease. 2. It must be isolated from the host and grown in pure culture. 3. It must reproduce the original disease when introduced into a susceptible host. 4. It must be found in the experimental host so infected. Until the development of better genetic tests just recently, there were still some doubts about #1. In addition, we had to wait for doctors, nurses, lab assistants etc. with no confounding risk factors to contract the disease accidentally from on-the-job exposure in order prove #3 and #4. (You can see why it would be unethical to inject HIV into random members of the population just to see what happens.) There’s a good link from the NIH here: [http://www.niaid.nih.gov/publications/hivaids/12.htm](http://www.niaid.nih.gov/publications/hivaids/12.htm) The two most prominent scientists that I’m aware of who oppose the consensus that HIV causes AIDS are Peter Duesberg, a molecular biologist and oncologist, and Robert Root-Bernstein, a physiologist and philosopher of science. Both seem to argue that AIDS is the result of immune suppression unrelated to HIV, but I am unconvinced. ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2002, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-hiv-cause-aids/101917/11 "2002-04-07T19:38:01Z")
_“Does HIV cause AIDS?”_ Well, I thought so. But if someone can show otherwise and wants to find the real culprit, have at it. In the meantime, since we have a number of drugs that lengthens the lives of AIDS patients, why wouldn’t they be used? If I saw a headline like “Theory about cause of headaches called into doubt”, I don’t think that I’d say “well I guess I can’t take aspirin anymore… I’ll just have to live with my headache.” 😕