# Does IQ change? (Bipolar + IQ)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-iq-change-bipolar-iq/165542
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [March 31, 2003, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-iq-change-bipolar-iq/165542 "2003-03-31T21:21:58Z")
**Posts on this page:** 13
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2003, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-iq-change-bipolar-iq/165542/1 "2003-03-31T21:21:58Z")
Recently, I came across the tidbit of info that those who are bipolar often perform very well on IQ tests. I’m mildly biploar, no one has ever mentioned this before, so I asked a therapist who shrugged and said “yeah, biploar people often have high IQs.” So, okay, out of idle curiosity I asked to take an IQ test thingamajag, and sure enough: Me smart!
Not genius or anything – mom would be proud, but no one else would really give a rat’s ass (me included).
So what I’m wondering is this: The disorder manifested itself in my early 20s (typical of the condition), would my IQ have been “average” prior to to my early 20s and then became “gifted” after my brain chemistry got wonky?
I don’t recall ever being tested as a kid, so I’ve no idea what my IQ would have been prior to the onset of the disorder.
I know illness or injury can result in brain damage that can _lower_ one’s IQ (from cognitive impairment), but can a person’s IQ go _up_ either from a change in brain chemistry or physical trauma?
Or is this one of those “no one really knows/not enough data” kind of questions?
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### Author:  [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2003, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-iq-change-bipolar-iq/165542/2 "2003-03-31T21:25:34Z")
WAG. Bipolar disorder is familial, and so even tho it wasn’t manifested before the early 20s, the genetic blueprint was already established. Moreover, the IQ you have once you reach about age 18 is the IQ you have, unless it deteriorates due to a mental disorder or organic damage.
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### Author:  [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-iq-change-bipolar-iq/165542/3 "2003-03-31T21:59:06Z")
My sister is severly bipolar; she cannot live alone (can’t manage her own affairs).
Her IQ is extremely high.
Wasn’t there a question about high IQ and mental illness here a while back?
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### Author:  [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-iq-change-bipolar-iq/165542/4 "2003-03-31T22:30:31Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by NinetyWt \*
> \*\*Wasn’t there a question about high IQ and mental illness here a while back? \*\*
I remember that thread and IIRC think that was about causal relationships between mental illness and high IQ. Sort of like “are geniuses more likely to be/become mentally ill?” (Hamsters were too busy during the lunch hour to go on a fruitful search, but I want to read that thread again.)
I was wondering more along the lines of “before and after.” Did I already have the above-average IQ or did I gain a facility for completing IQ test after my illness became manifest?
Hmm… I guess maybe I should be asking “does my brain actually work differently now?”
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### Author:  [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-iq-change-bipolar-iq/165542/5 "2003-03-31T23:10:09Z")
> [@](#):
>
> can a person’s IQ go up either from a change in brain chemistry or physical trauma?
> [@](#):
>
> did I gain a facility for completing IQ test after my illness became manifest?
I am not a psychologist or a doctor, so please don’t take this as an expert opinion, but it seems logical to me that:
If a brain chemistry problem prevented a person from performing up to true capacity, and then some change in chemistry removed that inhibition, then performance on an IQ test might improve. For example, if a person was not doing well because of something like severe depression, and this were alleviated by treatment, then I’d expect his test performance would improve. I can’t think of a way that physical trauma or illness could have this effect. I suppose that a person might perform poorly in a number of areas, including IQ tests, during the depressive portion of bipolar disorder and better during the manic phase. Again, this is not based on any particular expertise.
IMHO there is a lot of speculation about “genius being close to insanity” and a supposed high level of mental illness among the extraordinarily intelligent, but I myself don’t know that this is borne out in actual case studies. However, it may very well be that mental illness is more obvious in someone who was also very intelligent, and so we notice it more. Also, I think it’s possible that the stress of being different could push a slightly ill person or a slightly depressed person into a larger problem.
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### Author:  [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2003, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-iq-change-bipolar-iq/165542/6 "2003-03-31T23:31:35Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by MLS \*
> **If a brain chemistry problem prevented a person from performing up to true capacity, and then some change in chemistry removed that inhibition, then performance on an IQ test might improve.**
Like when they pulled the crayon out of Homer’s ear…
> [@](#):
>
> \*\* I suppose that a person might perform poorly in a number of areas, including IQ tests, during the depressive portion of bipolar disorder and better during the manic phase.\*\*
Actually, in my (very subjective) experience, it’s tougher to complete any kind of test while hypomanic because thoughts are really, really _rushed_ making it more difficult to settle down and concentrate. Like trying to read a book after you’ve consumed 18 cups of espresso.
I did try some googling and other internet searches and they do say yes, a high IQ often comes packaged with bipolar disorder, but nothing about _why_ that may be. Perhaps it’s not actually known. “I don’t know” is an acceptable answer. **Barbitu8’s** WAG sounds perfectly plausible too.
Oh, I wish I’d been tested when I was a kid though. Just to compare.
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### Author:  [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-iq-change-bipolar-iq/165542/7 "2003-04-01T03:16:49Z")
If you’re able to maintain your focus, and hypomania is disinhibiting, I suppose you might complete timed test sections faster–though accuracy might be a problem.
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### Author:  [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2003, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-iq-change-bipolar-iq/165542/8 "2003-04-01T15:51:58Z")
I once asked my counselor about this. She gives the Minnesota Multiphastic Personality test. She said those deemed ‘crazy’ (her word) get perfect scores on these tests. She said that’s because they are so intelligent that they can figure out these tests. Hmmm, I got a 100 on an IQ test when I was nine, a perfect score 🙂
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### Author:  [@PurplePerson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PurplePerson)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2003, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-iq-change-bipolar-iq/165542/9 "2003-04-01T16:06:57Z")
I am bi-polar, presently controlled by drugs. I have spent my stint in the hospital for this disorder and am full-fledged bi-polar.
My IQ in college was 156 and it is now, too. However, I am sure that when I am really depressed or overmedicated and left in a stupor that the number goes down because there is no ambition to take the test. If I did take it, I would care less about the outcome and would probably even be too tired to finish it.
The secret is in having the drugs balanced. I think at the high of controlled environment, I would do the best. If I were manic, again, I wouldn’t have the concentration.
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### Author:  [@Feynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feynn)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-iq-change-bipolar-iq/165542/10 "2003-04-01T16:34:34Z")
Bi-polar disorder can severely impair an individual’s ability to function and these impairments can affect the individual’s ability to problem solve effectively.
I.Q. is defined as an individual’s ability to solve problems so anything that affects that ability could change the results of the testing.
People suffering depression often have a severly impaired ability to solve problems and in some research I’ve reviewed a loss of 10% I.Q. was cited as a typical loss.
From my own experience…
I have found that when I am profoundly depressed my ability to carry out simple daily tasks becomes severely compromised and completing work becomes very difficult.
When I’m manic I get an astonishing amount of work done but at a cost, I make considerably more errors and need to double and triple check documents.
In the other thread, there was a correlation between high I.Q. and depression noted although the reasons for this correlation weren’t clear. One of the best theories proposed was that persons with high I.Q.'s also had a higher degree of self awareness and were able to identify their depression. Once identified, the people with high I.Q.'s were also more prone to over-analyze which contributed to the severity of the depression.
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### Author:  [@PurplePerson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PurplePerson)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-iq-change-bipolar-iq/165542/11 "2003-04-01T20:50:42Z")
I think what you said is very true.
> [@](#):
>
> One of the best theories proposed was that persons with high I.Q.'s also had a higher degree of self awareness and were able to identify their depression. Once identified, the people with high I.Q.'s were also more prone to over-analyze which contributed to the severity of the depression.
I analyze everything and am sensitive to everyone’s moods which can also alter my mood.
I don’t think I am a genius. I’m not sure what the correct number for genius is, but being more sensitive to the environment can hold back a bright person from succeding. Too much time is spent analyzing and I know, I get stuck in the analyzing, which holds back my doing.
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### Author:  [@mrbuddylee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrbuddylee)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-iq-change-bipolar-iq/165542/12 "2003-04-01T21:30:48Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Like when they pulled the crayon out of Homer’s ear…
Actually it was his nose.
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### Author:  [@j.c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j.c)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2003, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-iq-change-bipolar-iq/165542/13 "2003-04-02T00:03:00Z")
handy
You may be misremembering
> [@](#):
>
> I once asked my counselor about this. She gives the Minnesota Multiphastic Personality test. She said those deemed ‘crazy’ (her word) get perfect scores on these tests
There’s not a “perfect score.” It’s not the SAT.
I have never seen anything that suggests that high IQ and mental illness are related. In fact, in my experience, intelligent people are able to use their problem solving skills to recognize and work on or seek help for their problems. (At least initially.)
Suffering from anything under the big umbrella of mental illness disorders, can, of course, reduce ability. Any sort of stress can. There are all sorts of fun games where you kidnap a group of people, ask them to memorize a groups of numbers until you’ve established a baseline for how well they do at that task, and by what degree they improve in subsequent trials. Then, you poke them in the gizzard with a sharp stick and test them again! Or, you give them way to much caffeine. Or not enough caffeine. And test test test the day away. Hours of fun!
In any case, most people are average. 😉