# Does Islam allow anyone to convert to this religion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 26, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-allow-anyone-to-convert-to-this-religion/171240 "2003-04-26T02:27:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-allow-anyone-to-convert-to-this-religion/171240/41 "2003-04-29T16:12:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by martin\_ibn\_martin \* > Arabs aren’t Caucasian, they’re Semitic. The Arabic langauge is Semetic, a linguistic description. Native Arabic langauge speakers, the best definition of Arab in my opinion, come in virtually every physical type found in the Med. Basin region - i.e. everything but East Asian physical types. > [@](#): > > Islam will take anyone. The Qur’an states that there should be no difference between the various races and colors, so any form of racism is un-Islamic. Very true, for all that regretably prejudice is a universal human trait and racism is indeed found in Muslim majority countries. Noting this for the record for balance. > [@](#): > > The tax on non-Muslims was not, as many people think, a way to oppress non-Muslims (or was not conceived as such). It was a tax in lieu of military service in many cases, and one of the military’s job was to protect the people whose lands the Muslim rulers lived in from religious oppression. This is a bit of a white wash. In general I would agree historically the jizya was not particularly oppressive, and better on average than how other minorities were treated, however characterizing the military as being around to protect people from religious oppression is anachronistic at best. For all that, let me reiterate that historically dar al-Islam was on average not a bad place for minorities. On average. > [@](#): > > The name change thing (so far as I can tell) is part of the NOI legacy. Since the name you have now is the one your White Devil Slave Master gave you, you change it to reflect your new identity as your True Race and Self. Name change is traditional in the core areas of Islam, no doubt arising from the early traditions of mawala to Arab tribes. On non-Arabs reading translations – this is a relatively recent but increasingly widespread practice. Ideologically it’s simply reading ‘interpretations’ so that the good Muslim but non-Arab can get better access to the religion. Historically, the Quran was not translated at all, obviously in non-Arabic speaking areas the masses relied on the Ulema, educated in Arabic, to translate / interpret. The theoretical goal for every Muslim is of course to understand the Quran in its original. However it is hard slogging even for native speakers. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-allow-anyone-to-convert-to-this-religion/171240/42 "2003-04-29T18:12:14Z")
Dogface: Would you be so kind as to articulate your beef with Islam, this time with substance? At present, all you are doing is repeating what others have said and you are trying to make our words to be that which describes a malicious enterprise. Our words don’t. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-allow-anyone-to-convert-to-this-religion/171240/43 "2003-04-29T19:18:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogface \* > \*\*They are not reading the Koran. They are reading a mere interpretation of the Koran, not the real Koran. The real Koran is only permitted to be in Arabic. \*\* This is technically true by Islamic philosophy, but isn’t this really just a matter of semantics? This is very analagous to the meter. At one time, the only real meter was a platinum iridium bar stored at Sevres, France. It was the absolute definition of a meter. But nobody got into serious philosophical debate about whether a given measuring stick was a meter or was merely an interpretation of the real meter. It is a daunting task for a non-native-Arabic speaker to learn enough classical Arabic to read the Qur’an with sufficient comprehension. (The classical Arabic that the Qur’an is written in is different than colloquial Arabic, so even native Arabic speakers learn, essentially, two languages.) However, I will agree that translation into another language does require interpretation, as would that of nearly any text. For example, the Bible exists in multiple forms, even multiple English forms, which may have subtly different interpretations of the original, and in some cases suspected outright translation errors that change meaning. ---
**Author:** ![yoyo3500](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/5daacb/32.png) [@yoyo3500](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyo3500)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-allow-anyone-to-convert-to-this-religion/171240/44 "2003-04-29T19:40:11Z")
Does Islam allow anyone to convert to this religion? How ‘bout askin’: Does Islam allow anyone not to convert to this religion? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-allow-anyone-to-convert-to-this-religion/171240/45 "2003-04-29T20:15:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Intaglio \* > \*\*When Queen Noor of Jordan was the American Lisa Halaby, she learned to speak Arabic, studied the Koran, converted to Islam when she married King Hussein. > > So I am assuming anyone can convert. \*\* Did [Queen Noor](http://www.mtholyoke.edu/offices/comm/csj/041902/noor.shtml) even have to learn Arabic and convert to Islam? See below: > [@](#): > > **Born to a distinguished Arab-American family in 1951, Lisa Najeeb Halaby attended schools in the United States and entered Princeton University as a member of its first coeducational class. After receiving a bachelor’s degree in architecture and urban planning in 1974, she participated in international urban planning and design projects in Australia, Iran, the United States, and Jordan. In 1976, she traveled throughout the Arab world to research aviation training facilities for the preparation of a master plan for an Arab Air University in Jordan. Subsequently, she joined Royal Jordanian airline as director of planning and design projects. > Marrying the late King Hussein in 1978, Halaby took the name Noor and with him raised six children …** I was little surprised to learn that she was Arab-American. My impression of Queen Noor was that she was a Midwestern Christian farm girl (or something like that). Not so, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2003, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-allow-anyone-to-convert-to-this-religion/171240/46 "2003-04-30T00:32:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WeRSauron \* > **As far as the Qur’an is concerned, it is believed that each letter, punctuation mark, etc., is directly revealed by God and is sacred and unalterable.** There isn’t any punctuation in the revealed text of the Qur’an. Such punctuation marks as we find in printed copies were inserted by editors. It’s just to facilitate reading and does not impinge on the sacredness of the text in any way. When the text is written with no punctuation, it’s considered no different from when punctuation is inserted. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2003, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-allow-anyone-to-convert-to-this-religion/171240/47 "2003-04-30T01:15:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > \*\*Islam is, last I knew, a growing religion; I guess it should surpass Christianity at some point - at the present, the numbers of Christians and Muslims are pretty close to equal. > \*\* [Well, not all that close](http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0904108.html) ---
**Author:** ![martin\_ibn\_martin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@martin\_ibn\_martin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martin_ibn_martin)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-allow-anyone-to-convert-to-this-religion/171240/48 "2003-04-30T01:37:48Z")
As-Salaam u alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakutuhu Okee-dokee Martin here. The only people not permitted to convert are those who are not capable of informed decision-making. The insane and those with significantly diminished mental capacity cannot convert. On the other hand, those who are not able to convert are not held responsible for their actions and get all the good stuff at the game’s end. A muslim woman should marry a muslim man because a man of most other religions is not required to respect her beliefs. A christian man is not required by his religion to allow his muslim wife to worship, while a muslim man is required to in the reverse instance. Just an example. The Quran, like nearly any other book of significance, has been used to justify atrocities and other unpleasantness over the centuries. Specific instructions for specific events have been taken as literal commands for all time, (the Medina Suras regarding how to deal with a particularly duplicitous Arab Jewish tribe, for example), and we are left with a terrible legacy to learn from and not repeat. I am a half-assed muslim at best, and do not see the Qur’an as necessarily literally true, but a book filled with bits of deep wisdom and Signs of the Divine. My tendancies are more Sufi than Wahhabbi, which probably accounts for my little heresies. Name change is not required, just traditional. I didn’t change mine and noone pressured me to. I may adopt one for use among my Muslim Brothers and Sisters when I feel the need. The Qur’an is Arabic. Any translation is an interpretation, really more of an explanation of what the Arabic might mean. Arabic is nearly impossible to translate. An example: The names for Allah that muslims repeat many times a day, “Ar-Rahman and Ar-Rahim” meaning “The Compassionate and The Merciful” (more-or-less), have their origins in the root “R-H-M” which also forms the root for the word “Womb” The most frequently called-upon aspects of Allah’s nature, Compassion and Mercy, are inextricably intertwined with the concept of birth, nurturing and the origin of life. It can get a bit complicated from there:D The original Arabic of The Qur’an is considered to have a benificial effect upon the Spirit when recited. For me it has compelling quality. “Bismillahi Ar-Rahman, Ar-Rahim. Alhamdulillahi Rabil Al-Amin” Vibes better for me than, “In the Name of God, The Compassionate, The Merciful. Praise be to God, The Lord of The Worlds” Once I heard it recited traditionally. There were several wealthy kingdoms in West Africa that were predominantly Islamic. Songhai and Zimbabwe come immediately to mind. There power had waned considerably by the time the American slave trade got up to full swing, and the slaves imported were a mix of Animist, Christian, and Islamic. We cannot be sure what the proportions were, so I’ll leave that to those with an ideological stake in the matter. Malcolm X converted before Warith Deen Muhammad did and probably influenced him greatly. I believe that WD had been studying the Qu’ran and had this in the back of his mind for quite a while. The Masjid that I attend was originally founded as a NOI mosque by Malcolm X before his trip to Mecca and stayed when Warith Deen Muhammad took over and shifted the focus to Sunni Islam and Farrakhan split off to reform the old NOI. On any given Friday one will find our demographics about 70% African-Americans, 25% immigrant Muslims, 4% Hispanics, and 1% white…(me). I think I got everything. Martin ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2003, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-allow-anyone-to-convert-to-this-religion/171240/49 "2003-04-30T02:06:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MaxTheVool \* > \*\*[Well, not all that close](http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0904108.html) \*\* That page doesn’t list **Atheism** at all in the table. Well, I suppose it technically isn’t a “religion”. From what I’ve seen in the past, atheists make up about 1.25 - 1.5 billion people, which would put it at #2 in that list (less than Christians, more than Islam). That probably explains the missing percentage in that table (it only adds up to 72%). ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2003, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-allow-anyone-to-convert-to-this-religion/171240/50 "2003-04-30T03:00:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by martin\_ibn\_martin \* > **There were several wealthy kingdoms in West Africa that were predominantly Islamic. Songhai and Zimbabwe come immediately to mind.** Zimbabwe is in Southern Africa, more toward the eastern side. Not much is known about Old Zimbabwe, though I doubt it was predominantly Muslim. The three main West African kingdoms were Ghana (ca. 300?-1075), Songhai (ca. 800-15th c.), and Mali (ca. 1235-early 16th c.). I’m not sure about the Islamic content of Old Ghana, as Islam reached the Sudanic belt of West Africa via Almoravid expansion from Morocco in the mid-11th century, and in fact it was mainly the Almoravids who put an end to the Ghana empire. Timbuktu was the capital of Mali during the reign of Mansa Musa, its most famous king. Timbuktu was the site of a university that trained Islamic scholars. There were Islamic scholars of West Africa in later centuries, like [‘Omar ibn Sa‘îd](http://www.interfaithcenter.org/omar.shtml) who was brought from Senegal to North Carolina in 1807, who were sold into slavery and produced Arabic writings in the Americas. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2003, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-allow-anyone-to-convert-to-this-religion/171240/51 "2003-04-30T03:14:03Z")
ibn-Martin: At least one branch of Christianity, LDS, does require the husband to respect the wife’s choice of religion–after all, one of its tenets is that an LDS member is required to respect each person’s choice. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2003, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-allow-anyone-to-convert-to-this-religion/171240/52 "2003-04-30T05:00:47Z")
To add to **Jomo Mojo’s** comments: Ghana and Zimbabwei were definitely not Muslim states ( though Muslims were allowed to settle in Ghana ). Other large Muslim kingdoms that might ( just barely in one or two cases ) be included under the appellation of West African, would be the Kanuri kingdoms of Kanem, Bornu, and Kanem-Bornu ( sequentially from the 13th to the 19th century ), and short-lived ( but impressively large ) 19th century states such as the Sultanate of Sokoto ( northern Nigeria, essentially ), the Tukolor Empire, and Samori Toure’s mobile Dyula state. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2003, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-allow-anyone-to-convert-to-this-religion/171240/53 "2003-04-30T06:36:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jomo Mojo \* > The three main West African kingdoms were Ghana (ca. 300?-1075), Songhai (ca. 800-15th c.), and Mali (ca. 1235-early 16th c.). I’m not sure about the Islamic content of Old Ghana, as Islam reached the Sudanic belt of West Africa via Almoravid expansion from Morocco in the mid-11th century, and in fact it was mainly the Almoravids who put an end to the Ghana empire. Ah, no. Islamic graves are attested to in Old Ghana dated to the 800s, although the ‘Muslim’ medina was clearly minority and probably almost exclusively immigrant. Second, the Almoravids did not originate in Morocco at all, they originate in the same neighborhood as Ghana, a bit farther up in what is present Mauretania, among the Sanhaja Berber tribes. They expanded largely north into Morocco, but apparently fought Ghana as well. There is some controversy on the role of the Almoravids in the collapse of Ghana, I read a number of articles strongly critiquing the classical account of the conquest of Ghana. It may never have happened, or it might have. ---
**Author:** ![torben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5daacb/32.png) [@torben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torben)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2003, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-allow-anyone-to-convert-to-this-religion/171240/54 "2003-04-30T07:01:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yoyo3500 \* > \*\*Does Islam allow anyone to convert to this religion? > > How ‘bout askin’: Does Islam allow anyone not to convert to this religion? \*\* I know you are being willfully obtuse but this question has already been addressed. People who are mentally challenged are not allowed to convert for obvious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2003, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-allow-anyone-to-convert-to-this-religion/171240/55 "2003-04-30T07:39:22Z")
She was Xian, and to my knowledge was not a native Arabic speaker (ex-home Arabic at some level, I am not sure on that matter. For many practical povs she was a Mid Western Farm girl relative to the Hashemite family, being Sharif. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bordelond \* > \*\*Did [Queen Noor](http://www.mtholyoke.edu/offices/comm/csj/041902/noor.shtml) even have to learn Arabic and convert to Islam? See below: > I was little surprised to learn that she was Arab-American. My impression of Queen Noor was that she was a Midwestern Christian farm girl (or something like that). Not so, it seems. \*\* [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-allow-anyone-to-convert-to-this-religion/171240.md?page=2)