# Does Islam drive homophobic violence? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 12, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202 "2016-06-12T18:11:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/261 "2016-06-15T02:52:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Possibly – but I think that negative generalizations and attacks on Islam as a whole hurt the effort to modernize those groups and aspects within Islam that have not yet joined the modern world. Islam isn’t just a religious belief system, it contains specific laws. They’re based on the teachings of Mohammad. There is no “modernization” involved beyond ignoring the law. [From Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam): Narrated by Abdullah ibn Abbas: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot’s people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done. There are several methods by which sharia jurists have advocated the punishment of gays or lesbians who are sexually active. One form of execution involves an individual convicted of homosexual acts being stoned to death by a crowd of Muslims.[47][page needed] Other Muslim jurists have established ijma ruling that those committing homosexual acts be thrown from rooftops or high places,[48] and this is the perspective of most Salafists.[49] It’s no accident that ISIS is tossing gay people off roofs. It’s based on sharia law. The father of the killer came from Afghanistan which has the death penalty for the crime of homosexuality. His son was raised in the US and should have been “Westernized” into whatever fantasy world you have about the religion. But when you strip away all the layers you’re left with Mohammad, his words, and his deeds. Even if 80% of all Muslims spend their waking hours petting fuzzy bunnies the remainder are so batshit crazy that they actually follow the words of their prophet. Big fucking surprise a gay bar was attacked given the unending attacks over movies, cartoons and editorials. So either Mohammad’s words are religious bullshit to be ignored or they mean something to his followers on some level and are acted on. Given the number countries who have the death penalty based on sharia law for gay sex I don’t see how it’s possible to hand wave it away as a handful of Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/262 "2016-06-15T03:01:26Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Islam isn’t just a religious belief system, it contains specific laws. They’re based on the teachings of Mohammad. There is no “modernization” involved beyond ignoring the law. 😕 You say that as though it were somehow unusual for a religious belief system to contain specific laws, but **most** religious belief systems do. Jewish law, for example, decrees the death penalty for homosexuality just as much as Islamic law does. So whatever the reason(s) that Islam in the modern world has an unusually high level of support for capital punishment for homosexual acts compared to other religions, it can’t be merely because _“it’s a specific law”_, because that’s in no way unique to Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/263 "2016-06-15T03:05:46Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Did you miss the part of my previous cite that noted that during the past two years the feds have charged **equal numbers** of would-be terrorists of plotting or inciting such attacks in the name of Islamic State and in the name of various non-Muslim violent ideologies homegrown in the US? So your argument is that because the 99% of the population that isn’t Muslim produced as many terrorists as the 1% that is, Islam is not a problem? Even if we limit ourselves to Republicans rather than the population as a whole, Muslims still account for ten times as many terrorists and ten times as many casualties as they would if they were as inclined to terrorism as Republicans were. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/264 "2016-06-15T03:19:51Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Nobody’s denying (as I keep pointing out) that in the current historical moment Islam is well out in front of other world religions as far as the practical infliction of religious tyranny, oppression and bigotry are concerned. > [@Kimstu](#): > > And as I keep saying, nobody at all is denying that Islam as it exists in the modern world has a relatively high severity of homophobia problems and violence problems. > [@Kimstu](#): > > […] to understand why Islam in the modern world has an exceptionally pervasive homophobia problem and violence problem. > [@Grumman](#): > > So your argument is that […] Islam is not a problem? :rolleyes: Maybe if I typed in a larger font… > [@Grumman](#): > > […] the 99% of the population that isn’t Muslim produced as many terrorists as the 1% that is […] > > Even if we limit ourselves to Republicans rather than the population as a whole, Muslims still account for ten times as many terrorists and ten times as many casualties Yes, I never claimed otherwise. To repeat myself yet again: > [@Kimstu](#): > > […] although there is a statistically significant disproportionate likelihood that a randomly selected terrorist perpetrator will turn out to be Muslim, there is not a statistically significant disproportionate likelihood that a randomly selected Muslim will turn out to be a terrorist. So you see, I’ve made it very clear that I’m aware that terrorists are disproportionately likely to be Muslim. My appalling sin, apparently, lies in believing that that one fact is not sufficient to fully understand the problem of Islamist-extremist terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/265 "2016-06-15T03:24:11Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > 😕 You say that as though it were somehow unusual for a religious belief system to contain specific laws, but **most** religious belief systems do. Jewish law, for example, decrees the death penalty for homosexuality just as much as Islamic law does. > > So whatever the reason(s) that Islam in the modern world has an unusually high level of support for capital punishment for homosexual acts compared to other religions, it can’t be merely because _“it’s a specific law”_, because that’s in no way unique to Islam. Islam has a progenitor who killed gay people and told his followers to do the same. That’s the reason. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/266 "2016-06-15T03:36:12Z")
This whole thing is simple. If there exist Muslims that are not homophobic, then Islam itself cannot be what’s making people homophobic, and therefore it make no sense to attack Islam itself for such. It only makes sense to attack the homophobic views that Muslims express. Attacking Islam serves no purpose but to make people become more extremist–thinking they must defend their faith. There’s a reason why atheists don’t try to convince Creationists that god doesn’t exist–just that you can believe in God and in evolution. You cannot attack someone’s entire belief system and expect them to change. You have to attack the individual beliefs. You have to give them ways to continue in their belief system but no longer hold the problematic beliefs. It’s the same reason I continually point out that the Bible doesn’t actually condemn homosexuality, by pointing out that the most likely translation is against a type of pedophilia and not homosexual relations in and of themselves. That’s how I deal with homophobic Christians. Not by giving them an out to call me a liberal commie atheist that they can just ignore. I adhere to their values, and then show how they are compatible with being pro-LGBT. And this is the strategy that has worked. Why would you think Islam would be different? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/267 "2016-06-15T03:42:26Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > People who want to know the actual **causes** of ideological violence are the ones who care about identifying it and understanding it in different ideologies. > > People who lazily just want a reason to blame ideological violence on some vague generalization called “Islam”, of course, don’t care. > I know you don’t know and don’t care, and my point is that your ignorance and apathy are counterproductive. > No, ignorance and laziness are not okay and not good. > Then there’s nothing more to be discussed. We all agree that bigotry kills. We can just go around saying to everyone, and especially to violent homophobes (Muslim and otherwise) that bigotry kills. Great, I’m on board with that. > > But it appears that that’s **not** all you think needs to be discussed here. You apparently think that part of what needs to be discussed here is a bunch of useless cloudy fartwhistling about _“So what is it about Islam’s messages that allow people to corrupt it so?”_ > **If we just want to denounce bigotry in general, which is a perfectly reasonable goal, then we don’t have to bother with specifying whether that bigotry is manifested in an Islamic context, a Christian context, or any other. But if we are interested in identifying and analyzing a specifically _Islamic_ context of bigotry, then we need to understand its relation to bigotry in other contexts too.** > > And as I keep saying, **nobody at all is denying that Islam as it exists in the modern world has a relatively high severity of homophobia problems and violence problems**. So why do you seem to think that that message is somehow being blocked or thwarted? > Anybody who genuinely wants to understand **why** Islam in the modern world has an exceptionally pervasive homophobia problem and violence problem. > Well, that wasn’t the question you asked me about, of course. But in any case, why are you bringing up Christians, Buddhists or Jews here? I thought you said you “don’t want to talk about Islam, relative to other religions or cultures”? :dubious: > The fact of the matter is, **asahi** , you **do** want to talk about Islam relative to other religions or cultures— **but only to the very limited extent of asserting that Islam is fundamentally _worse_ than other religions or cultures**. > > When somebody starts seriously inquiring **why** Islam in the modern world has some problems worse than other cultures, and explores how those problems **connect** to problems in other cultures, you throw your toys out of the pram and pitch a tantrum about being so fucking tired of hearing about it. Oh right, this is where you come in and enlighten me about how the US supported the Mujahideen and how it supports the House of Saud. I get that. It’s not relevant. It’s just not. So drop it. You’re not enlightening me. You’re not educating me. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/268 "2016-06-15T03:50:37Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > This whole thing is simple. If there exist Muslims that are not homophobic, then Islam itself cannot be what’s making people homophobic… If there exist smokers without cancer, then smoking cannot cause cancer. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/269 "2016-06-15T03:54:56Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > This whole thing is simple. If there exist Muslims that are not homophobic, then Islam itself cannot be what’s making people homophobic This logic is flawed. It’s like saying, “If there exist babies without brain damage who were born to alcoholic mothers, then alcohol itself cannot be what’s causing fetal brain damage.” ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/270 "2016-06-15T04:14:29Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And this is the strategy that has worked. Why would you think Islam would be different? We know Islam is different because, death penalty and stuff. Question is, why hasn’t it worked with Islam? Gays have made a lot of progress over the last 50 years by playing nice, but they haven’t made nearly that much progress in Islam. Muslims have been living in the US for generations, but the Muslim gay community is still very small. Why aren’t there more places of worship gay Muslims can feel safe enough to openly participate? Why did this guy in Florida decide to kill instead of talking to an imam? What would a typical imam have told him if he had? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/271 "2016-06-15T04:28:32Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > We know Islam is different because, death penalty and stuff. Question is, why hasn’t it worked with Islam? Gays have made a lot of progress over the last 50 years by playing nice, but they haven’t made nearly that much progress in Islam. Muslims have been living in the US for generations, but the Muslim gay community is still very small. Why aren’t there more places of worship gay Muslims can feel safe enough to openly participate? Why did this guy in Florida decide to kill instead of talking to an imam? What would a typical imam have told him if he had? This article by a first-generation immigrant (now ex-Muslim) is quite moving, and quite disturbing. [Moderate Muslims Have Hit Their Wall by Suraiya Simi Rahman](http://www.patheos.com/blogs/camelswithhammers/2015/12/moderate-muslims-have-hit-their-wall/) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/272 "2016-06-15T07:12:51Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Any derision you encounter is generated by the sort of hysteria that you demonstrate–very similar to the hysteria that Fundamentalist Christians demonstrate when they talk of a “War on Christmas” or how they are “being persecuted” in secular societies such as the U.S. and Canada. > > A certain legitimate concern expressed in support for laws insisting on tolerance or some such is understandable. A personal choice to avoid embracing Islam (however you choose to express that choice) makes sense. > > However, you live in one of the earliest nations in the world to decriminalize homosexual behavior. You live in the fourth nation in the world to recognize same sex marriage, (and several provinces recognized it prior to that). You live next to a province in which the mere whisper of the word “Sharia” caused the government to stop providing support to Jewish and Christian family resolution councils so that they could avoid providing the same assistance to Muslims. Among your less civilized neighbors to the South, same sex marriage has [more support among Muslims (42%) than among Evangelical Christians](http://reason.com/blog/2016/06/13/in-america-muslims-are-more-likely-to-su). You have nothing to fear from Islamic homophobia changing the laws or the acceptance of homosexuality in your nation. The arrival of some number of Muslims is not going to reverse the attitudes of your entire nation, (particularly if, based on the experience of Europe, assimilation will generally cause the attitudes of their descendants to be more accepting of your sexual orientation). > > Concern is fine. Opposition to various expressions of belief is fine. Your hand-wringing is over-the-top paranoia. And you waited until post #260 to say this, because . . . ??? There are millions of us, these last few days, who share **Valteron** ’s feelings of being scared shitless. By your standards, the dead and wounded in Orlando also had “nothing to fear,” being safely protected in an oh-so-tolerant country. Yet instead they are now bloody bodies of rotting flesh. And each one of them could easily have been me or my husband or **Valteron**. So please excuse our “hand-wringing” and “over-the-top paranoia.” The target is on our backs, not yours. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/273 "2016-06-15T07:12:52Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > This whole thing is simple. If there exist Muslims that are not homophobic, then Islam itself cannot be what’s making people homophobic, and therefore it make no sense to attack Islam itself for such. It only makes sense to attack the homophobic views that Muslims express. I could point you in the direction of 20th century ideological organisations that espoused hateful, dangerous, murderous behaviour. Yet I can also point out to you people who were members of those organisations who wouldn’t hurt a fly. Yet I would still maintain that those ideologies should be criticised and condemned, I hope you would too. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/274 "2016-06-15T08:44:17Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > We know Islam is different because, death penalty and stuff. Question is, why hasn’t it worked with Islam? Gays have made a lot of progress over the last 50 years by playing nice, but they haven’t made nearly that much progress in Islam. Muslims have been living in the US for generations, but the Muslim gay community is still very small. Why aren’t there more places of worship gay Muslims can feel safe enough to openly participate? Why did this guy in Florida decide to kill instead of talking to an imam? What would a typical imam have told him if he had? Were the killers of Matthew Shepard Muslims? Your rant, and that’s all it is, as demonstrated clearly by your last sentence, does not compute. “In Islam” is pretty much meaningless unless you specify which branch or sect of Islam you’re discussing. But, then, that wouldn’t help your so-called point, would it, now? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/275 "2016-06-15T08:58:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Islam isn’t just a religious belief system, it contains specific laws. They’re based on the teachings of Mohammad. There is no “modernization” involved beyond ignoring the law. > > [From Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam): > > Narrated by Abdullah ibn Abbas: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot’s people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done. > > There are several methods by which sharia jurists have advocated the punishment of gays or lesbians who are sexually active. One form of execution involves an individual convicted of homosexual acts being stoned to death by a crowd of Muslims.[47][page needed] Other Muslim jurists have established ijma ruling that those committing homosexual acts be thrown from rooftops or high places,[48] and this is the perspective of most Salafists.[49] > > It’s no accident that ISIS is tossing gay people off roofs. It’s based on sharia law. The father of the killer came from Afghanistan which has the death penalty for the crime of homosexuality. His son was raised in the US and should have been “Westernized” into whatever fantasy world you have about the religion. But when you strip away all the layers you’re left with Mohammad, his words, and his deeds. Even if 80% of all Muslims spend their waking hours petting fuzzy bunnies the remainder are so batshit crazy that they actually follow the words of their prophet. > > Big fucking surprise a gay bar was attacked given the unending attacks over movies, cartoons and editorials. > > So either Mohammad’s words are religious bullshit to be ignored or they mean something to his followers on some level and are acted on. > > Given the number countries who have the death penalty based on sharia law for gay sex I don’t see how it’s possible to hand wave it away as a handful of Muslims. Pretty much all of this was also true for Christianity and Christian countries until pretty recently. The very liberal attitudes of most Muslim Americans, who are friendlier on average to gay rights than American evangelical Christians, shows that this is not a necessary aspect is Islam any more than it is necessary for Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/276 "2016-06-15T09:06:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Pretty much all of this was also true for Christianity and Christian countries until pretty recently. The very liberal attitudes of most Muslim Americans, who are friendlier on average to gay rights than American evangelical Christians, shows that this is not a necessary aspect is Islam any more than it is necessary for Christianity. On what do you base your assertion that “Muslim Americans … are friendlier on average to gay rights than American evangelical Christians”? ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/277 "2016-06-15T10:36:05Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Oh that’s right, because for every Tim McVeigh there are probably now hundreds of equivalent radicals in the Muslim world. How many Tim McVeighs have there been since 1995? More than you appear to realize. According to the Southren Poverty Law Center, there are 892 hate groups currently operating in the US. This is a 14% increase over the last two years. Here is a map showing hate group activity - > **[Hate Map](https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map)** > > Subscribe to the https://soundslikehate.org/"\>Sounds Like Hate podcast to learn more about hate groups like the Proud Boys.​ Here’s a breakdown of the various groups - > **[Active Hate Groups in the United States in 2015](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2016/active-hate-groups-united-states-2015)** > > This list of 892 active hate groups, up from the 784 groups listed a year before, is base on information gathered by the Intelligence Project from hate group publications, citizen reports, law enforcement agencies, field sources, web postings, and... SPLC keeps a list of right-wing hate group activity, starting with the Oklahoma City Bombing and going up to the idiot Bundyites who occupied the Malheur Wildlife Refuge - it is a long list. > **[Terror from the Right](https://www.splcenter.org/terror-from-the-right)** The list itself has not been updated following the events of this weekend. However, here is a recent report on the growing right-wing anti-goverment movement of extra-legal “constitutional sheriffs”, attempting to prevent what they see as “federal overreach”. > **[Line In The Sand](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2016/line-sand)** > > A radical and growing organization of ‘constitutional sheriffs’ is promoting defiance of federal laws it doesn’t like. For further reading, Vox just published a piece on right-wing terrorism. It sheds more light on the fact the majority of terrorist attacks in the last fifteen years have come from home-grown Americans, not foreign terrorists. [Americans — not foreigners — have committed 80 percent of terrorist attacks in the US since 9/11](http://www.vox.com/2015/11/23/9765718/domestic-terrorism-american-citizens-omar-mateen) > [@Vox article](#): > > September 11, 2001, marked the worst international terrorist attack on American soil, killing more than 3,000 people and wounding countless others. But 9/11 is an outlier. In the 14 years since, not one domestic terrorist attack has been committed by a foreign terrorist organization, including the latest mass shooting in Orlando, Florida. Omar Mateen was an American citizen. > > In the same time frame, however, there have been 26 deadly domestic terrorist attacks perpetrated by homegrown terrorists. Homegrown terrorism commonly refers to terrorist acts committed by a government’s own citizens. While sometimes used to describe an Islamic extremist threat, homegrown terrorism isn’t tied to any one ideological background. > > ““In the 330 cases we’ve examined since September 11, we found 80 percent are US citizens”” > > Of the 28 deadly homegrown terrorist attacks, only 10 of those attacks were related to Islamic extremism. The other 18 attacks were led by right-wing extremists, including, most recently, the mass shooting that killed three and wounded nine at a Planned Parenthood in Colorado Springs, Colorado. It’s easy to talk about Islamic terrorism because it’s a problem caused by Others and it’s flashy with bombs and guns and lots of minutes from Wolf Blitzer. But the truth is, in America - the terrorism is coming from inside the house. It’s uncomfortable to talk about domestic right-wing terrorism. It’s so much easier to blame the foreigners. But that’s precisely why we have to face up to facts if we want to make a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/278 "2016-06-15T11:47:11Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > It’s easy to talk about Islamic terrorism because it’s a problem caused by Others and it’s flashy with bombs and guns and lots of minutes from Wolf Blitzer. But the truth is, in America - the terrorism is coming from inside the house. It’s uncomfortable to talk about domestic **right-wing terrorism**. It’s so much easier to blame the foreigners. But that’s precisely why we have to face up to facts if we want to make a difference. Bolding mine. Would you agree that a far-right political position is fair game to be challenged and criticised? If not, why not? If so, do you think religious ideologies should be treated in the same way? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/279 "2016-06-15T12:34:11Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > On what do you base your assertion that “Muslim Americans … are friendlier on average to gay rights than American evangelical Christians”? [This poll](http://www.prri.org/spotlight/attitudes-on-same-sex-marriage-by-religious-affiliation-and-denominational-family/), though I should specify “white evangelicals”, since that’s how it divided in the poll. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/280 "2016-06-15T13:02:54Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > [Americans — not foreigners — have committed 80 percent of terrorist attacks in the US since 9/11](http://www.vox.com/2015/11/23/9765718/domestic-terrorism-american-citizens-omar-mateen) > > It’s easy to talk about Islamic terrorism because it’s a problem caused by Others and it’s flashy with bombs and guns and lots of minutes from Wolf Blitzer. But the truth is, in America - the terrorism is coming from inside the house. It’s uncomfortable to talk about domestic right-wing terrorism. It’s so much easier to blame the foreigners. But that’s precisely why we have to face up to facts if we want to make a difference. I think the Orlando shootings demonstrate an issue with conflating “right-wing” terrorism with domestic terrorism. The Orlando shooter was an American citizen, but he claimed allegiance to ISIL. Was he a right-winger? Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202.md?page=15)