# Does Islam drive homophobic violence? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 12, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202 "2016-06-12T18:11:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/321 "2016-06-16T16:25:49Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Now when we consider Islam, many people, if they haven’t studied comparative religion, don’t understand the extent to which the Koran and Hadiths dictate Islamic belief and practice. All the major Islamic denominations have interpretive traditions, which one could think of as playing a similar role to what the Talmud provides for Orthodox Judaism. But comparatively, in Islam, the scripture plays a very strong role, the interpretive tradition plays a weak one. In Judaism that’s reversed. And yet Muslim Americans are significantly more accepting and open to homosexuality than evangelical and Mormon Americans, so this is obviously not a hard rule by any means. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/322 "2016-06-16T18:05:33Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > One could trash the Jews for what their scriptures say till the cows come home, but the fact is that, through much of ancient and medieval times, the Jewish legal system was actually more humane than most others existing at the same time. The same can be said of the medieval Islamic legal system as well. As has been pointed out on these boards many times, pre-modern Islamic societies were in many cases **more** tolerant of “aberrant” behaviors such as homosexuality and religious diversity than contemporary Christian ones were. (And as **iiandyiiii** notes, that is true for some modern Muslim subcultures as well.) Which pretty much demolishes your essentializing attempt to claim that Islam is **intrinsically** more repressive and fundamentalist than other religions because of some vague broad-brushery about its “interpretive tradition”. :dubious: [QUOTE=ITR champion] But comparatively, in Islam, the scripture plays a very strong role, the interpretive tradition plays a weak one. In Judaism that’s reversed. [/quote] More vague generalization that doesn’t really mean anything. All religious interpretive traditions are **about** the scripture. You can’t separate out the scripture from the interpretive tradition. [QUOTE=ITR champion] Try reading this article: _[What ISIS Really Wants](http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/)_. It lays out in detail how every bizarre form of torture and execution and every call for terrorist attacks from ISIS has a clear basis in the Koran, which ISIS leaders drive home constantly. Virtually every major decision and law promulgated by the Islamic State adheres to what it calls, in its press and pronouncements, and on its billboards, license plates, stationery, and coins, “the Prophetic methodology,” which means following the prophecy and example of Muhammad, in punctilious detail. [/quote] :dubious: :dubious: All that says is that a bunch of Islamic-extremist fundamentalists have an extremist fundamentalist **interpretation** of Muslim scripture. Likewise, Christian-extremist fundamentalists have an extremist fundamentalist interpretation of Christian scripture, and Jewish-extremist fundamentalists have an extremist fundamentalist interpretation of Jewish scripture, and so on. It doesn’t explain jack-shit about why in the modern world, extremist fundamentalist interpretations are so much more prevalent and influential in Islam than in other religions, when in the past it’s often been the other way around. [QUOTE=ITR champion] If we want to understand why thousands of youths from western countries have run off to join the Islamic state, but there’s no similar movement of young Jewish people to a similar Jewish terrorist group [/quote] 😕 There certainly isn’t anywhere near as **big** a [similar movement in Jewish fundamentalist extremism](http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4747848,00.html), but it’s silly to try to claim that no such movement exists at all: > [@](#): > > Members of the Jewish “Revolt” terror group believe that the State of Israel has no right to exist and that there is no place for Arabs in the Jewish kingdom they will establish, so it is permissible to kill them. > > Several of the members of this group were indicted […] for the murder of the Dawabsheh family, including 21-year-old Amiram Ben-Uliel and a 17-year-old Israeli-American teenager, as well as for other acts of violence perpetrated against Palestinians. […] > > Most of the group’s members reside in the Shiloh bloc and other areas in the Samaria region of the West Bank. They have come to the area from all over the country, and not just from the territories. > > The Shin Bet says there has been an increase in the number of youths who want to join the group in its actions since the Duma arson attack. [QUOTE=ITR champion] (or a Christian or Buddhist or Shinto or …), [/quote] Again, Christian and Buddhist terror groups aren’t anywhere near as widespread and active as Muslim ones, but they do exist and they do recruit. (About Shintoism I have no idea.) [QUOTE=ITR champion] we have to start by studying and understanding the ways in which Islam is different from other religions. [/QUOTE] Sure, but we have to be well-informed and scrupulous about identifying **genuine and specific** differences between the particular **forms** of modern Islam that produce high levels of oppression and violence, and the particular forms of other religions (as well as other, less widespread forms of Islam) that do not. Indiscriminate generalizations trying to reduce these genuine and specific differences to simplistic naive pronouncements, such as _“Islam is different because it contains specific laws”_ or _“Islam is different because it places more emphasis on scripture than interpretation”_, are basically lazy bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/323 "2016-06-16T18:42:45Z")
It certainly is the case that some religious groups in some places are more tolerant of homosexuality than others. For example, in America, Jews are among the most tolerant. However, I would argue that this has little or nothing to do with the particular scriptures and interpretive guides contained in the religion, and almost everything to do with historic influences on the groups in question. Take Jews as an example: there is nothing whatsoever in Judaism as a religion to indicate that it would be liberal on matters of homosexuality. The scriptures and the Talmud are unanimous - certain male homosexual acts are prohibited (there is a lot of quibbling, because female homosexual acts are not expressly prohibited in scripture; also, it is not agreed whether homosexuality, or only homosexual sex acts are prohibited - but all sources agree that the last is, at least, prohibited). So how do we get from ‘it is prohibited’ to ‘it ought to be accepted by society’? Simple: modern-day Jews in America are, on average, liberal on social matters and simply dismiss those aspects of their ancestral religion that they believe are outdated relics of a past society. Certainly Jews exist who cling to the scriptures and Talmud on all matters, but they are in the minority. The rest choose a ‘modern’ reading of the scriptures and commentaries, in which they separate out those aspects of the religion they believe have spiritual and moral worth, from those that they feel do not. The real issue is: why did Jews, on average, choose to become so liberal? A complex question, in which such things as education levels, availability and choice of economic opportunities etc. all play a part. There is no reason to assume the same process cannot occur in other religious groups, and considerable evidence that it does. Hence the fact that, In America, Muslims are on average middlingly liberal on matters of homosexuality - less liberal than (say) Jews, but more liberal than (say) evangelical Christians. A mere analysis of the scriptural basis of evangelical Christianity versus Islam versus Judaism would not enable you to predict that result. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/324 "2016-06-16T18:52:14Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Sure, but we have to be well-informed and scrupulous about identifying **genuine and specific** differences between the particular **forms** of modern Islam that produce high levels of oppression and violence, and the particular forms of other religions (as well as other, less widespread forms of Islam) that do not. > > Indiscriminate generalizations trying to reduce these genuine and specific differences to simplistic naive pronouncements, such as _“Islam is different because it contains specific laws”_ or _“Islam is different because it places more emphasis on scripture than interpretation”_, are basically lazy bullshit. Well then, it sounds like you and I and everyone else in this thread are in agreement that there are forms of modern Islam that produce high levels of oppression and violence, and that these forms dominate a regrettably large part of the Arab world currently. You’ve been clear about what explanations for this you don’t accept. What genuine and specific differences do you believe account for it? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/325 "2016-06-16T21:39:57Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Well then, it sounds like you and I and everyone else in this thread are in agreement that there are forms of modern Islam that produce high levels of oppression and violence, and that these forms dominate a regrettably large part of the Arab world currently. […] What genuine and specific differences do you believe account for it? Well, like any other massive sociocultural phenomenon it’s incredibly complex. But I’d say that one of the most important factors is the specifically **political** entanglement of the puritanical Wahhabi “fundamentalist” movement with the militant expansionist House of Saud in the 19th and early 20th century. Reactionary “purification” movements are most damaging and tyrannical when they’re allied with political power, as we see, for example, in English Puritanism in the English civil wars, and earlier in the Albigensian Crusade in the 13th-century Catholic Church. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the Sauds’ adversary Turkey, the direct heir of the Ottoman Empire, embraced modernism and reformation with a secular law code (and still has the strongest commitment to liberal civil secularism in the modern Middle East, what with wanting to join the EU and all). Modernism found a lot of adherents in Islam in the early 20th century, though there were also many Muslims who viewed it with deep suspicion as part of the ideology of European colonizers. Europe and North America had turned to civil secularism and nationalist/democratic ideals in the 18th and 19th centuries partly as an alternative to the trauma of religious wars and holy empires (though by no means without opposition, as the formation of the Holy Alliance illustrates). The non-European colonies of the European powers, which is what much of the Muslim world was during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, weren’t considered similarly entitled to self-determination and national identity. So it’s not surprising that many Muslims (like many Hindus in the RSS in India) rejected imitation of colonial civil secularism in favor of embracing a national/religious identity. **Why is religious theocratic opposition to liberal civil secularism now just a social movement under (mostly) civil-secularist governments in most nations of Europe and the Americas, Japan, India, etc., but the dominant political force in much of the Islamic world?** The above couple paragraphs start to scratch the surface of the answer: I can go on expanding on it if you want, though I wish some of the SDMB subject matter experts like **Tamerlane** would weigh in with more authoritative explanations. **But the chief point is that this phenomenon doesn’t follow directly or inevitably from scriptural support for theocracy in the Qur’an, any more than, say, the pro-monarchy pro-ethnic-cleansing Jewish terror group “Revolt” follows directly or inevitably from scriptural support for monarchy or ethnic cleansing in the Old Testament.** ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/326 "2016-06-16T21:46:18Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Sure, but **that’s exactly why it’s so dishonest as well as counterproductive to refuse to consider the parallels of such attacks with similar attacks by members of other cultures.** > > If right-wing Christian after right-wing Christian after right-wing Christian commits acts of mass murder in a society that is generally considered not to be a war zone, for example, that may have something important to tell us about why Islamist extremists are doing the same thing. It may not tell us why at present there are **more** Islamist-extremist mass murderers than right-wing Christian ones, but it allows us to look beyond superficial differences in the trappings of fanaticism to understand more about fanaticism in general. > > Contrary to what you obstinately imagine, **anti-Islamophobes aren’t making these points to try to excuse or diminish or trivialize Islamist-extremist violence or to disguise the acknowledged fact that the prevalence and severity of this sort of extremist violence these days are much more marked in Islam than in other religions.** > > Rather, what we’re doing is trying to avoid the superficial essentialism that ignorantly scapegoats aspects of Islam that aren’t actually the root cause of modern Islamist-extremist violence. > > That sort of ignorant superficial essentialism is what produces Chestertonian idiocies like imagining that [Eastern scripts obviously embody evil text because their letters are “the wrong shape”, like twisting serpents](https://books.google.nl/books?id=uFJQDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA82). Or, less drastically, like **Magiver** ’s silly notion that Islamist-extremist homophobia can be explained by the Muslim “belief system” containing a “specific law” against homosexuality, disregarding the fact that **other belief systems also have similarly specific laws** : > > So does Judaism, and by extension Christianity. The “specific law” in Leviticus prescribing the death penalty for homosexuality—and in many other cases where we liberal moderns consider its application to be a barbaric violation of human rights—is accepted by Jewish and Christian literalists as part of the teachings of Moses directly inspired by God. > > In fact, [Leviticus 24:10-23 describes Moses in person proclaiming a death sentence in a blasphemy case](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2024&version=NIV) and decreeing that it must be applied in all such cases. > > **So when you simplistically try to argue that many Muslims today support executing homosexuals or blasphemers or adulterers etc. _just because their God’s Word as recorded by Muhammad tells them to_, then you have to be able to explain why so many fewer (though not zero) Jews and Christians today support executing homosexuals or blasphemers or adulterers etc. _even though their God’s Word as recorded by Moses ALSO tells them to._** > > See what I mean? **You can’t logically put the blame for modern Islamist-extremist violence on some particular aspect of Islam, _if that particular aspect is not in fact unique to Islam_ but is shared by other religions that _don’t_ exhibit the same level of extremist violence**. > > It continues to baffle me that so many Straight Dopers can be so resistant to that fundamental level of recognition for basic logic, at least when it comes to talking about Islamic-extremist terrorism. Bigotry is truly a mind-altering drug. > > That’s because you refuse to distinguish between the concepts of “incendiary religious rhetoric” and “a religion”, at least when the religion in question is Islam. Nope. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/327 "2016-06-16T23:04:20Z")
Bravely rebutted. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/328 "2016-06-16T23:11:07Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > If multiple groups are capable of promoting violence, what is the point of singling out one group to bear the brunt of a rant? That borders on selective fear/hatred/anger/opposition. You mean besides the codified killing of gay people and the never ending mass attacks around the world by said religion? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/329 "2016-06-16T23:35:17Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > So does Judaism, and by extension Christianity. The “specific law” in Leviticus prescribing the death penalty for homosexuality—and in many other cases where we liberal moderns consider its application to be a barbaric violation of human rights—is accepted by Jewish and Christian literalists as part of the teachings of Moses directly inspired by God. Unlike Islam, the Christian religion does not have a progenitor who killed gay people or suggested they be killed. In fact, the Christian prophet didn’t bother to write a single word down. There is no codified legal system you can point to today based on the words or actions of the Christian prophet. The exact opposite is true of Islam. It’s not just a religion it’s a codified way of life complete with laws that are used today by Muslim countries. It is those laws that Muslims look to for guidance. It’s further justified by the progenitor of the religion who committed the acts he himself codified. It is those laws that punish gay people up to and including death. This is not in dispute. The Bible is not the rule of law nor will it ever be in Western countries. Sharia law IS the rule of law for Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/330 "2016-06-17T00:01:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You mean besides the codified killing of gay people and the never ending mass attacks around the world by a subset of > [@](#): > > said religion? FTFY. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/331 "2016-06-17T01:05:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You mean besides the codified killing of gay people and the never ending mass attacks around the world by said religion? As long as you continue to hold the nonsense position that it is “the religion” that is carrying out these attacks, you are demonstrating the same sort of silliness that Trump espouses, (along with aligning yourself with such stalwarts of Democracy and rational thinking as the John Birch Society). We have been over this many times. While one faction among Muslims has been promoting extreme violence, the violence that has occurred over the last few years has many more sources than Islam, and the desire to ignore every other situation in order to simplistically blame Islam for all the problems is both ignorant and counter-productive. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/332 "2016-06-17T01:13:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Unlike Islam, the Christian religion does not have a progenitor who killed gay people or suggested they be killed. In fact, the Christian prophet didn’t bother to write a single word down. There is no codified legal system you can point to today based on the words or actions of the Christian prophet. The exact opposite is true of Islam. It’s not just a religion it’s a codified way of life complete with laws that are used today by Muslim countries. It is those laws that Muslims look to for guidance. It’s further justified by the progenitor of the religion who committed the acts he himself codified. It is those laws that punish gay people up to and including death. This is not in dispute. The Bible is not the rule of law nor will it ever be in Western countries. Sharia law IS the rule of law for Muslims. More ignorance, refuted multiple times on this board. There is not one “Sharia,” there are multiple versions of interpreted Sharia throughout history and throughout the world. And the laws that the various forms of Sharia have promulgated have not all been the repressive laws that you want them to have been. [Only a minority of “Muslim” nations even rely on Sharia for the majority of their laws.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_of_sharia_law_by_country) The notion that “Islam” is using “Sharia” to enslave or oppress as many people as possible is nothing but a paranoid fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/333 "2016-06-17T01:46:48Z")
> [@andros](#): > > a subset of > > FTFY. When did Mohammad’s words become a subset? Need some cites. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/334 "2016-06-17T02:05:48Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > When did Mohammad’s words become a subset? Need some cites. Don’t be disingenuous, it’s unbecoming. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/335 "2016-06-17T02:29:56Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > More ignorance, refuted multiple times on this board. > There is not one “Sharia,” there are multiple versions of interpreted Sharia throughout history and throughout the world. And the laws that the various forms of Sharia have promulgated have not all been the repressive laws that you want them to have been. > [Only a minority of “Muslim” nations even rely on Sharia for the majority of their laws.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_of_sharia_law_by_country) The notion that “Islam” is using “Sharia” to enslave or oppress as many people as possible is nothing but a paranoid fantasy. You’re continued insistence that since all Muslims aren’t actively shooting up the world it isn’t the religion driving the Islamic terrorism is so gob-smacked stupid it’s beyond reason. Lets look at your cite and choose the countries that are Members of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation where sharia plays no role in the judicial system [Benin](https://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/03/benin-islamic-jihadists-destroy-church-and-training-center)- Islamic jihadists destroy Church and training center [Burkina Faso](http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/16/africa/burkina-faso-hotel-terrorist-attack/)- Burkina Faso attack: At least 29 dead, scores freed after hotel siege [Cameroon](http://allafrica.com/stories/201601180792.html) - Cameroon: War Against Boko Haram - Muslim Leaders Put Community On Alert [Chad](http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/12/chad-suicide-attacks/419007/)- Triple Suicide Bombings in Chad [Côte d’Ivoire](http://theconversation.com/cote-divoire-attack-why-terrorists-are-targeting-francophone-africa-56259) - Then on March 13, gunmen opened fire at several hotels in the seaside resort of Grand Bassam, Côte d’Ivoire, killing 18 people and injuring 33. Like the attacks in Mali and Burkina Faso, al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb has reportedly claimed responsibility. [Mali](http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/20/africa/mali-shooting/)- Heavily armed gunmen on Friday fired indiscriminately at guests at a hotel hosting diplomats and others in Mali’s capital, This is not a complete list from your cite. I’m just too tired to list them all. You can’t be bothered to research your own cites. These are a tiny tiny tiny sample of the chaos inflicted on the world in the name of Islam, not by people who happen to be Muslims, but in the name of Islam. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/336 "2016-06-17T02:32:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > These are a tiny tiny tiny sample of the chaos inflicted on the world in the name of Islam, not by people who happen to be Muslims, but in the name of Islam. Well no shit. So it _isn’t_ Islam doing awful things after all, but _people_ doing awful things in Islam’s name. Glad you’ve come around. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/337 "2016-06-17T02:33:35Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Don’t be disingenuous, it’s unbecoming. Yah that statement doesn’t look like a cite. You can’t have a prophet who murdered people and not expect his followers to emulate him. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/338 "2016-06-17T02:35:37Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > . . . You can’t have a prophet who murdered people and not expect his followers to emulate him. Moses put a lot of people to death…and Jews don’t emulate that. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/339 "2016-06-17T02:36:21Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Well no shit. > > So it _isn’t_ Islam doing awful things after all, but _people_ doing awful things in Islam’s name. > > Glad you’ve come around. um what? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/340 "2016-06-17T02:50:39Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Moses put a lot of people to death…and Jews don’t emulate that. Odd thing, they stopped doing it thousands of years ago. So we’re back to 2016 and a never ending parade of Islamic terrorist attacks. You’re logic is flawed if you suggest a group of people HAVE to emulate their prophet. Clearly Muslims ARE emulating Mohammad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202.md?page=18)