# Does Islam drive homophobic violence? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 12, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202 "2016-06-12T18:11:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/862 "2016-07-21T00:38:38Z")
Why is Islam being singled out? Pretty much ALL religions drive homophobic violence, hence the sooner we get rid of religion, the better. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/863 "2016-07-21T00:52:26Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Pretty much ALL religions drive homophobic violence, hence the sooner we get rid of religion, the better. Horseshit. China is the most atheist nation on earth, with an officially atheist governing body, and Chinese society is nonetheless more homophobic than many modern majority-Christian societies. If being anti-religious were enough to get rid of homophobia, China would long ago have become a gay paradise. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/864 "2016-07-21T01:08:08Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Why is Islam being singled out? Pretty much ALL religions drive homophobic violence, hence the sooner we get rid of religion, the better. I have a gay niece that works for her church (I think non denominational protestant) and is very active there. She loves it and evidently they really like her as well. I realize some protestant churches don’t dig it, but evidently a lot of them are much more accepting of it these days. In the real world the Muslim religion still isn’t as accepting as that and to pretend that Christianity is as violently opposed to LGBT lifestyle just isn’t so. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/865 "2016-07-21T01:11:51Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Horseshit. China is the most atheist nation on earth, with an officially atheist governing body, and Chinese society is nonetheless more homophobic than many modern majority-Christian societies. If being anti-religious were enough to get rid of homophobia, China would long ago have become a gay paradise. I didn’t say religion was the ONLY driver of homophobic violence. Ignorance and superstition generally will do nicely. ---
**Author:** ![dreamregent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6f9a4e/32.png) [@dreamregent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamregent)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/866 "2016-07-21T01:15:37Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > This is called an attempt to spin away from the point. > > Still waiting. Your claims have no logical foundation in the first place. Your specific arguments are also unclear. Superficially, it appears you support the contention that the nature of Christianity is somehow inherently different from Islam with respect to violence and repression. If that is the case, an examination of events which have occurred in the past few months is not a sufficient basis upon which one can draw reasonable conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/867 "2016-07-21T01:17:07Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I didn’t say religion was the ONLY driver of homophobic violence. Ignorance and superstition generally will do nicely. I think the point is that “getting rid of religion”, contrary to what you implied, doesn’t necessarily do anything to diminish ignorance and superstition. Non-religious people aren’t any less naturally prone to ignorance and superstition than religious ones. ---
**Author:** ![dreamregent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6f9a4e/32.png) [@dreamregent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamregent)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/868 "2016-07-21T01:21:35Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > I have a gay niece that works for her church (I think non denominational protestant) and is very active there. She loves it and evidently they really like her as well. I realize some protestant churches don’t dig it, but evidently a lot of them are much more accepting of it these days. In the real world the Muslim religion still isn’t as accepting as that and to pretend that Christianity is as violently opposed to LGBT lifestyle just isn’t so. The more you speak, the more it appears you undercut your own reasoning. Here, you’ve admitted Christianity has changed over time on this issue. Yet, you seem to be supporting the idea that Islam is somehow inherently different. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/869 "2016-07-21T01:22:03Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I think the point is that “getting rid of religion”, contrary to what you implied, doesn’t necessarily do anything to diminish ignorance and superstition. Non-religious people aren’t any less naturally prone to ignorance and superstition than religious ones. Well, it’s a risk I’m prepared humanity to take. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/870 "2016-07-21T01:23:47Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Horseshit. China is the most atheist nation on earth, with an officially atheist governing body, and Chinese society is nonetheless more homophobic than many modern majority-Christian societies. If being anti-religious were enough to get rid of homophobia, China would long ago have become a gay paradise. Oh, I’d much rather be gay in China than any Muslim dominated country. It is a gay paradise compared to Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/871 "2016-07-21T01:31:47Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Oh, I’d much rather be gay in China than any Muslim dominated country. :dubious: Depends what you mean by “Muslim dominated”. If you mean “radical-Islamist theocratic”, then sure, that’s true. If you just mean “majority Muslim”, then you might want to reconsider the case of [Albania](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Albania). > [@](#): > > […] one of a very few countries in Europe which explicitly bans discrimination on the grounds of gender identity […] Albania has ratified Protocol No. 12 to the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, moreover Albania was a signatory to the 2007 UN Declaration on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity. > > In 2015, the International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association (ILGA) ranked Albania 19th in terms of LGBT rights out of 49 observed European countries. > [@levdrakon](#): > > It is a gay paradise compared to Islam. This is just one of innumerable examples in this thread where people talk about “Islam” as though it were some kind of unvarying monolith, instead of a hugely diverse range of cultures, peoples and views. While it is certainly undeniable (as I reiterate for about the thousandth time in this thread) that modern Islam has more widespread and severe problems with theocratic oppression and violence than most other contemporary religions, it is an unfortunately all-too-common mistake to equate those problems with “Islam” as an undifferentiated whole. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/872 "2016-07-21T01:51:59Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > You have any links about recent Christian terrorists killing people in the name of God? But but but…the inquisition, Salem witch trials, some b.s. out of the old testament… > > I go to The Church of What’s Happening Now! and look forward to you providing some evidence that Christianity is breeding, right now, the kind of crazy assed killers that Islam evidently is. [Contemporary Christian Terrorism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism#Central_African_Republic) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/873 "2016-07-21T04:41:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, that’s not at all special or unique. God and Moses are just as or more violent than Muhammed, and even Jesus beat the crap out of the temple money changers (you might read it differently, but that’s just an interpretation). > > **Magiver** , are you a Christian? Based on all the biblical versions of the quote you posted Jesus didn’t beat the crap out of the money changers. It’s not a function of reading it differently even among the variations printed. The passage comes with a qualifier about chasing out the sacrificial animals with a piece of rope. Something not possible against a group of people. As to your question, I’m not anything. I was brought up in a Christian environment in grade school so I have a general idea of biblical stories. Your attempts at marginalizing Mohammad’s history of murder makes no sense. He murdered people and he calls for murdering people. Jesus did not. Buddha did not. It’s logical to assume that people who follow the words and deeds of the head of a religion are doing so based on the words and deeds of that person. These are not interpretations. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/874 "2016-07-21T04:43:47Z")
You seriously do not believe it’s possible to chase people out of a marketplace with a knotted rope? Your tactical knowledge hasn’t improved any since the Benghazi thread. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/875 "2016-07-21T05:28:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Your attempts at marginalizing Mohammad’s history of murder makes no sense. He murdered people and he calls for murdering people. Jesus did not. Well, by some interpretations, Jesus is God, therefore every muderlicious thing God pronounces in the Old Testament should count as a Jesus quote. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/876 "2016-07-21T07:54:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s logical to assume that people who follow the words and deeds of the head of a religion are doing so based on the words and deeds of that person. These are not interpretations. Your pointing to the “head of a religion” so that in case of Christianity you can conveniently exclude parts of the Bible that are not directly attributed to Christ. But as long as the Bilble in its entirety is referred to as a holy book by Christians I do not accept that. The Bible contains multiple passages like this one from the book of Deuteronomy: > [@](#): > > 6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. This is as intolerant and violent as anything you will find in Islamic scripture. The difference is not in the religion. It is in the way Christians and Muslims live their religion. That way has changed over time. There is every reason to believe that it will keep changing. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/877 "2016-07-21T09:21:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Based on all the biblical versions of the quote you posted Jesus didn’t beat the crap out of the money changers. It’s not a function of reading it differently even among the variations printed. The passage comes with a qualifier about chasing out the sacrificial animals with a piece of rope. Something not possible against a group of people. Yes he did. Feel free to interpret it how you’d like, but all the interpretations I’ve heard or seen, such as Martin Scorsese’s, include violence. > [@](#): > > As to your question, I’m not anything. I was brought up in a Christian environment in grade school so I have a general idea of biblical stories. Your attempts at marginalizing Mohammad’s history of murder makes no sense. He murdered people and he calls for murdering people. Jesus did not. Buddha did not. God murdered many, many more people than Muhammed. This may explain at least part of why, in the last hundred years or so, the majority of wars overseas or overseas military actions were executed by majority Christian countries. Or maybe there are other explanations aside from religious text. > [@](#): > > It’s logical to assume that people who follow the words and deeds of the head of a religion are doing so based on the words and deeds of that person. These are not interpretations. Everything is an interpretation when passages contradict each other. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/878 "2016-07-21T09:35:19Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > [Contemporary Christian Terrorism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism#Central_African_Republic) One of the scariest things about those entries is the fact that Dominionists have become [a real force within the US military hierarchy](http://www.economist.com/blogs/erasmus/2014/09/religion-and-american-armed-forces). Why form an illegal terrorist cell when you can infiltrate - and run - the biggest baddest military in the world? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/879 "2016-07-21T10:15:29Z")
Overseas/non-border wars and military actions, of which the huge majority over the last century were conducted by majority Christian countries, have killed far, far more people than terrorism by Muslims. The difference is probably in orders of magnitude. Why are Christians so much more bloodthirsty than Muslims over the last century? What is it about Christianity that has resulted in so many more deaths caused by Christian-majority countries? Is this related to the incredibly bloodthirsty, murderous, and genocidal God described in the Bible? Or could other factors not related to the religion be the explanation? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/880 "2016-07-21T16:29:42Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > the words and deeds of the head of a religion […] These are not interpretations. Yes, they are. This is the core of all your wrongness and illogic on this subject: you simply don’t understand that _every_ reading of a sacred text is an interpretation of it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Natural](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mr.Natural](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Natural)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/881 "2016-07-23T01:21:01Z")
Since the thread has already strayed, more than once, off the topic . Another confused individual. This time killing even children… "A gunman shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’ opened fire at children in McDonald’s before rampaging through a shopping mall, killing at least nine people. [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3703705/Major-police-investigation-way-shots-fired-shopping-centre-Munich.html](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3703705/Major-police-investigation-way-shots-fired-shopping-centre-Munich.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202.md?page=45)