# Does Islam drive homophobic violence? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 12, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202 "2016-06-12T18:11:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![dreamregent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6f9a4e/32.png) [@dreamregent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamregent)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/882 "2016-07-23T10:13:26Z")
> [@Mr.Natural](#): > > Since the thread has already strayed, more than once, off the topic . > > Another confused individual. This time killing even children… > > "A gunman shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’ opened fire at children in McDonald’s before rampaging through a shopping mall, killing at least nine people. > > [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3703705/Major-police-investigation-way-shots-fired-shopping-centre-Munich.html](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3703705/Major-police-investigation-way-shots-fired-shopping-centre-Munich.html) We could post news stories about Catholic priests molesting children as well. Is the Catholic religion to blame for that? This mall shooter is interesting, though. It seems he was acting out against foreigners (i.e. non-Germans). Specifically, the news says he spoke against “Turks.” [http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/23/europe/germany-munich-shooting/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/23/europe/germany-munich-shooting/index.html) > [@](#): > > Witness Huseyin Bayri said he was riding his bike outside the restaurant when he saw the attacker yelling. > > “I heard a scream at first: ‘You shitty … foreigners. I am German. You will get it,’” > [@](#): > > Photos and video posted on social media showed a profanity-filled verbal exchange between a man on the top level of a parking garage and another one on a balcony. > > The exchange, recorded on two camera phones, captured an intense conversation that ends in gunfire. The man who appears to be a shooter said insulting things about Turks, did not espouse jihadist ideology and spoke with a German accent. ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/883 "2016-07-23T11:03:11Z")
> [@dreamregent](#): > > We could post news stories about Catholic priests molesting children as well. Is the Catholic religion to blame for that? Yes. Of course it is. Catholicism is the only means by which such a web of victims, perpetrators and apologists could have sustained itself for so long. ---
**Author:** ![dreamregent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6f9a4e/32.png) [@dreamregent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamregent)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/884 "2016-07-23T11:19:15Z")
> [@nachtmusick](#): > > Yes. Of course it is. > > Catholicism is the only means by which such a web of victims, perpetrators and apologists could have sustained itself for so long. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but Catholicism isn’t the only religion where this has happened, nor are religions the only institutions with similar occurrences. Indeed, it occurs in any system which involves close, sustained contact between adults and children (e.g. schools, even in the home). Are the concepts of education and parenting to blame for those events? ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/885 "2016-07-23T12:46:23Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Yes, they are. This is the core of all your wrongness and illogic on this subject: you simply don’t understand that _every_ reading of a sacred text is an interpretation of it. There are many, many kinds of texts. What generally sets “sacred” texts apart from all the others is that people get really pissed-off if you interpret them differently than they do. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/886 "2016-07-23T16:53:25Z")
> [@nachtmusick](#): > > What generally sets “sacred” texts apart from all the others is that people get really pissed-off if you interpret them differently than they do. And yet all sacred texts have dozens if not thousands of different interpretations by people who all believe that **their** way of interpreting the text is the best one. There simply is no such thing as a sacred text that objectively has only one “right” or “best” interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/887 "2016-07-23T17:46:32Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Why is Islam being singled out? Pretty much ALL religions drive homophobic violence, hence the sooner we get rid of religion, the better. Unfortunately that ain’t gonna happen. As Gibbon commented in _The Decline and Fall_ there seems to be something in the majority of humans that needs some form of organized superstition. Uproot one religion another will soon rise in its place. Just look at recorded history. The level of gullibility and credulity in humanity doesn’t go down as one would expect with the advances in scientific knowledge. As a people we’re just as addicted to magical thinking as our ancestors were. Sure, we can coat some of the wild beliefs now with a thin veneer of pseudo science but it’s all the same claptrap underneath. Deities in the sky, superbeings who create whole universes and watch over them, demons that can possess us, magi who conquer death and become gods, aliens who anally probe us, lizard lords who secretly rule us, mediums who claim to commune with the dead (who surprisingly never have anything interesting to say), goblins,fairies, wizards, witches, oracles, etc. Particular beliefs may change with the centuries but behind them all is the same irrationality and superstition that has afflcted us since we were huddled around the fire in gloomy caves terrified of the darkness beyond. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/888 "2016-07-23T17:54:12Z")
And BTW I agree that religions stir up homophobia. As they’re not going anywhere (religions or gays) we need to shame religions into accepting homosexuality. How? In your face Gay Pride marches through Bible Belt towns, extremist Muslim areas, etc. Get used to it, bigots, this is how things are despite your medieval beliefs! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/889 "2016-07-23T19:13:42Z")
> [@dreamregent](#): > > Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but Catholicism isn’t the only religion where this has happened, nor are religions the only institutions with similar occurrences. Indeed, it occurs in any system which involves close, sustained contact between adults and children (e.g. schools, even in the home). Are the concepts of education and parenting to blame for those events? You’re confusing the concept of “Catholicism” with the structured organization known as “The Roman Catholic Church”. I blame the latter for enabling sustained child abuse. The former I generally attribute to superstition. ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/890 "2016-07-23T20:34:52Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You’re confusing the concept of “Catholicism” with the structured organization known as “The Roman Catholic Church”. I blame the latter for enabling sustained child abuse. The former I generally attribute to superstition. Until recently that small percentage of the populace in Catholic countries who were attracted to men had only one practical option - the priesthood and “celibacy”. Catholic institutions must have been gayer than Broadway throughout the Middle Ages. Just speculating here. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/891 "2016-07-24T03:54:44Z")
> [@nachtmusick](#): > > Until recently that small percentage of the populace in Catholic countries who were attracted to men had only one practical option - the priesthood and “celibacy”. > > Catholic institutions must have been gayer than Broadway throughout the Middle Ages. > > Just speculating here. And jolly well, too, but I had the vague impression a family would tend to push their third or fourth sons (that is, among those who survived to adulthood) toward the priesthood as a career in part to reduce hassles over inheritance, i.e. not everyone in the priesthood was there by personal choice or to try to limit “sinful” urges. ---
**Author:** ![dreamregent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6f9a4e/32.png) [@dreamregent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamregent)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/892 "2016-07-24T04:34:55Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You’re confusing the concept of “Catholicism” with the structured organization known as “The Roman Catholic Church”. I blame the latter for enabling sustained child abuse. The former I generally attribute to superstition. I’m not confused and we are not in disagreement. Effectively, you’re simply repeating what I said. ---
**Author:** ![dreamregent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6f9a4e/32.png) [@dreamregent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamregent)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/893 "2016-07-24T04:39:21Z")
> [@nachtmusick](#): > > Until recently that small percentage of the populace in Catholic countries who were attracted to men had only one practical option - the priesthood and “celibacy”. > > Catholic institutions must have been gayer than Broadway throughout the Middle Ages. > > Just speculating here. The sexual abuse of children (e.g. altar boys) is distinct from attraction to “men”. Considering the last few posts, it seems to me that you’re conflating the two (i.e. the “gay people are child molesters” stereotype). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/894 "2016-07-24T08:32:55Z")
> [@dreamregent](#): > > I’m not confused and we are not in disagreement. Effectively, you’re simply repeating what I said. I understand the point you were going for, but there’s an implied slide in your statement from the religion of Catholicism to the institution of the RCC, and they are not exactly synonymous. A religion by itself doesn’t abuse anyone, since it’s just a set of ideas and rituals. The practitioners can be _very_ abusive, and the RCC is a set of practitioners with a hierarchy that practiced (and I suspect still practices) a look-the-other-way policy that didn’t really have anything to do with the practice of Catholicism but just with protecting the RCC itself. ---
**Author:** ![dreamregent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6f9a4e/32.png) [@dreamregent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamregent)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/895 "2016-07-25T03:04:27Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I understand the point you were going for, but there’s an implied slide in your statement from the religion of Catholicism to the institution of the RCC, and they are not exactly synonymous. A religion by itself doesn’t abuse anyone, since it’s just a set of ideas and rituals. The practitioners can be _very_ abusive, and the RCC is a set of practitioners with a hierarchy that practiced (and I suspect still practices) a look-the-other-way policy that didn’t really have anything to do with the practice of Catholicism but just with protecting the RCC itself. That’s exactly what I’ve been saying. ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/896 "2016-08-07T06:07:20Z")
> [@dreamregent](#): > > The sexual abuse of children (e.g. altar boys) is distinct from attraction to “men”. Considering the last few posts, it seems to me that you’re conflating the two (i.e. the “gay people are child molesters” stereotype). No, gay people aren’t child molesters. I’ve never seen or heard any evidence for that. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/897 "2016-08-07T18:22:22Z")
> [@nachtmusick](#): > > No, gay people aren’t child molesters. I’ve never seen or heard any evidence for that. That was exactly **dreamregent** ’s point. ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2016, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202/898 "2016-08-13T11:33:11Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > That was exactly **dreamregent** ’s point. Of course, but **Dreamregent** asked if I was conflating homosexuality with child molestation. I wasn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-islam-drive-homophobic-violence/757202.md?page=44)