# does it cost a lot to make a "gated community"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 29, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311 "2011-06-29T21:02:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311/21 "2011-06-29T23:55:00Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > in other words, all that stands between us and the hypothetical wonderful utopia of cheaply built fences all over the place is a “gate” contraption that would have a minimum of moving parts (to avoid breaking) and be capable of operation by a part-time minimum wage employee? (for which role the middle class neighborhoods of today probably have no shortage of candidates) Sure, that’s all you need. After all, the fence or wall that you’ll need to build all around the neighborhood is free. And I’m sure that the town is going to let you obstruct traffic without any objection. You just need a gate with few moving parts and a part-time minimum wage employee. (Of course, since it’s a part-time employee, your neighborhood is going to be inaccessible for much of the week.) ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311/22 "2011-06-30T00:17:40Z")
I think gating off a community requires that that community also own the streets. Gating off public streets is probably frowned on otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311/23 "2011-06-30T00:32:07Z")
hmm, in addition to the questions about public streets that I have asked upthread ([post 14](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13971080&postcount=14)), I have to wonder about just how often are streets “public” in the suburbs. Is it uncommon for a neighborhood (a condo development or a bunch of single family houses that look alike) to own its own streets? Also, if streets are “public”, does this mean that they are owned by the town? Or who owns them? E.g. if a town decides to convert into a gated community in its entirety, would the streets ownership be an issue? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311/24 "2011-06-30T00:44:48Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > hmm, in addition to the questions about public streets that I have asked upthread ([post 14](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13971080&postcount=14)), I have to wonder about just how often are streets “public” in the suburbs. Is it uncommon for a neighborhood (a condo development or a bunch of single family houses that look alike) to own its own streets? > > Also, if streets are “public”, does this mean that they are owned by the town? Or who owns them? E.g. if a town decides to convert into a gated community in its entirety, would the streets ownership be an issue? All of those can happen. There a some streets near me that are private yet not gated even though it is suburbia. It essentially means that the town does not maintain the street and they post signs so that people won’t drive on them if they don’t need to but you can if you choose. In rural areas, there are plenty of private roads. Some of them are on large amounts of land owned by a single owner and sometimes they are shared. You can generally put up fences or gates at your discretion if you own large amounts of rural land. The King Ranch in Texas is almost as big as the state of Rhode Island and it is private. The only thing special about a “gated community” is that a group of people come together collectively to own the land and control its access. Only people with some decent amount of money generally want to do that but you could buy a trailer park and make it gated if you really wanted to. Still, most roads in suburbia are just regular streets owned by the town, state, or whatever government entity is responsible for them. Anyone can drive on them. I feel odd having to explain this. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311/25 "2011-06-30T00:48:20Z")
Another consideration is emergency vehicle access (fire, police, ambulance). I was in Florida during sweeps week a couple of years ago and watched a local TV “investigative report.” In the communities where gates are code-operated (no guard on duty), the local emergency services are supposed to be given access codes or (in some cases) the gates have sensors that activate in response to siren frequencies. The reporter drove around with a fire crew and found that many of the access codes or siren-detectors didn’t work. Also, in the case of large gated-communities, the emergency vehicles sometimes had to drive a long distance out of their way to get to the gate. Some communities installed special back gates for emergency access, but (again) many of the emergency access gates didn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Kiwi\_Fruit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiwi_fruit/32/12_2.png) [@Kiwi\_Fruit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiwi_Fruit)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311/26 "2011-06-30T01:04:59Z")
My sister lives in a gated community in Cairns, Australia. The gate is operated by one of those garage door type remotes or a keypad by the gate. The mail boxes are all sited beside the gate too. There is a phone at the gate for visitors to call each of the houses in the community. I think there are 35 houses, mostly 3 bedroom ones. There’s a common swimming pool and barbeque area near the centre, which, along with the roadway is owned and maintained by the body corporate, which also owns and maintains the common grassed areas and other vegetation (trees and hedges). The whole thing is surrounded by a 8 foot wire mesh fence with barbed wire along the top, not very noticeable from a little distance, so not completely Colditz style. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311/27 "2011-06-30T01:12:43Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Sure, and getting everyone in your hypothetical middle class neighborhood to agree with your desire to have a gate. Absolutely. It would be quite difficult to take a non-gated community and turn it into a gated one because of homeowner objections. It has always been my impression that many, if not most, gated communities are built in one big shot by developers or have extremely powerful HOAs to enforce this sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311/28 "2011-06-30T01:12:54Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Still, most roads in suburbia are just regular streets owned by the town, state, or whatever government entity is responsible for them. Anyone can drive on them. I feel odd having to explain this. What might be confusing about this is that usually the streets in subdivisions are built by the developer instead of the local government. So they start out as private roads, but unless it’s a gated community or similar arrangement, they become public roads essentially as soon as they’re built. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311/29 "2011-06-30T01:48:23Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > in cases where road funding may be a big issue, could the problem be avoided by having a fence and entrance checkpoints that permit cars to enter freely but do not allow pedestrians or bikers without identification? Let’s say the entering cars, having slowed down on the bump, would be classified as residents/registered guests/unknown outsiders, and the latter kind raise an automatic alarm accompanied by a “hello, mysterious stranger” message shown to the driver on a roadside screen? But the cars would not be impeded from entering. > > Would this kind of road still fit the definition of “public road”? Or which features of the above setup would need to be removed or altered to stay within the “public road” definition? You can certainly have a public road which prohibits bike riders and pedestrians - NYC at least has public roads where bicycles and pedestrians , but you can’t have a public road which prohibits _some_ bike riders and pedestrians- it’s no different than a road which prohibits _some_ cars. And the alarm and screen won’t work - why would a private group be permitted to install an alarm and screen to discourage entry on a street maintained by everyone’s taxes? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311/30 "2011-06-30T02:17:23Z")
“Gating” of communities with public roads has been done legally in a couple of places: a couple of subdivisions on the north side of Miami, and the entire single-family portion of Rosemont, Illinois. Since the roads remain public, the only legal requirement that can be introduced is that you come to a complete stop at the stop sign mounted by the guardhouse. You need not speak with the guard, but your license plate will be photographed or recorded. In Rosemont, since I chose not to speak to the guard, I was followed by a patrol car as I drove around. In making maps, one of the biggest judgment calls I must make is whether to show private roads. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311/31 "2011-06-30T02:44:28Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > What might be confusing about this is that usually the streets in subdivisions are built by the developer instead of the local government. So they start out as private roads, but unless it’s a gated community or similar arrangement, they become public roads essentially as soon as they’re built. I my city, “public road” means the public has the right-of-way to use the road. It’s actually a patchwork as to whether the city owns the land or it’s owned by the adjacent homeowner. It’s mostly academic, since the city maintains public roads. We have a few subdivisions near me with private roads, and that seems to be because they didn’t meet some criteria when they were developed (e.g. too narrow). In my subdivision, the roads are public, and I believe the developer deeded the land under the right-of-way to the city. That same developer was building one of those subdivisions with the private roads at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Kiwi\_Fruit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiwi_fruit/32/12_2.png) [@Kiwi\_Fruit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiwi_Fruit)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311/32 "2011-06-30T02:45:45Z")
> [@Kiwi\_Fruit](#): > > My sister lives in a gated community in Cairns, Australia. The gate is operated by one of those garage door type remotes or a keypad by the gate. The mail boxes are all sited beside the gate too. There is a phone at the gate for visitors to call each of the houses in the community. I think there are 35 houses, mostly 3 bedroom ones. There’s a common swimming pool and barbeque area near the centre, which, along with the roadway is owned and maintained by the body corporate, which also owns and maintains the common grassed areas and other vegetation (trees and hedges). The whole thing is surrounded by a 8 foot wire mesh fence with barbed wire along the top, not very noticeable from a little distance, so not completely Colditz style. And I meant to say - the entire village was built by one developer. The houses are middle of the road size and quality and as far as I can tell, the prices are about the same as a single family house elsewhere in Cairns. I don’t know what the bodycorp fees are though. I’m picking that the cost to the developer was not much different from doing an ungated development on the land because he was able to put more houses in the same area as the private road is narrower and would take less space than a standard one, and each house has a smaller land area than standard for the suburb it’s in. ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311/33 "2011-06-30T05:13:28Z")
> [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > “Gating” of communities with public roads has been done legally in a couple of places: a couple of subdivisions on the north side of Miami, and the entire single-family portion of Rosemont, Illinois. Since the roads remain public, the only legal requirement that can be introduced is that you come to a complete stop at the stop sign mounted by the guardhouse. You need not speak with the guard, but your license plate will be photographed or recorded. In Rosemont, since I chose not to speak to the guard, I was followed by a patrol car as I drove around. yes, that seems to be close to my line of thinking upthread. Everybody is allowed to drive through, but everybody driving through realizes that the checkpoint notices strangers and potentially puts police/security/whoever on alert. The same logic can apply to pedestrians going through, even if they cannot be explicitly restricted outright. Another nice thing about pedestrians is that they are easier to profile visually, whereas people inside cars may be harder to see given some lighting conditions and car window properties. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311/34 "2011-06-30T05:24:37Z")
> [@Quintas](#): > > Guards? They usually have a gate with an access code or card reader for the residents. And that is the difference now between rich and middle class. Gated? Sure. Guarded? Not as common. My son’s friend lives in a ‘gated’ community (really a guarded one) where you must pass security. When they have a party, there’s a list. Downtown, people don’t have gated communities 😛 in lofts and hi-rises, but they do have staff that you have to get past. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311/35 "2011-06-30T12:57:48Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > What might be confusing about this is that usually the streets in subdivisions are built by the developer instead of the local government. So they start out as private roads, but unless it’s a gated community or similar arrangement, they become public roads essentially as soon as they’re built. There’s generally a formal process where the town takes ownership of the road (and therefore responsibility for maintaining, plowing, etc.). This can happen at early or late stages of the development, even after most houses are sold and inhabited. So the roads might not be owned by the town until quite a while after they’re built (if the developer wants to finish the final stages of the subdivision before transferring all the roads at once, or the town wants the developer to fix/improve things before taking ownership of the roads, or possibly other reasons). Of course, if the developer is planning on transferring the roads to the town, there’s probably no gate or other access control, even before the transfer, so they’re public in some sense. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311/36 "2011-06-30T13:15:32Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > By contrast, a “gated trailer park” is not at present a popular meme. Around here it is very common for “trailer parks” to be named “estates”. Like “Clover Ridge Estates”. Weird. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311/37 "2011-06-30T13:48:56Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Around here it is very common for “trailer parks” to be named “estates”. Like “Clover Ridge Estates”. Weird. In my general vicinity there are quite a few “gated trailer parks.” The use of the word “trailer” is much discouraged; the PC term is “mobile home” since the trailers are at least theoretically mobile inasmuch as they can be moved. Anyway, most of these places have names that in no way indicate they are actually trailer parks; many of these places are gated. Some have guards and some do not. Some of these so called “trailers” are quite expensive, ranging in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311/38 "2011-06-30T16:07:44Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > In the ones I have seen there has to be a guard to screen visitors, the mailman, deliveries, etc. You can’t really put up a gate with no guard and have much security. Agreed. My father-in-law has lived in several gated communities in Florida, and I’ve visited several others; that always seems to be the set-up. There’s an automatic gate (using a bar-code reader) which allows residents to enter and exit easily, but there’s also a manned guard station at the front gate, for allowing entrance to visitors. As far as I can tell, in all of these, the roads themselves are privately owned. Upkeep of the roads (and the guard house) is paid by the residents through their homeowner association fees. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311/39 "2011-06-30T16:20:44Z")
Of possible interest: [Rolling Hills](http://www.rolling-hills.org/), California is a community where the entire [city](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_Hills,_California) is a single gated community. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311/40 "2011-06-30T16:41:52Z")
> [@Quintas](#): > > Guards? They usually have a gate with an access code or card reader for the residents. True anecdote. There’s a gated community a few miles from me. It’s all new money – pro athletes, business execs and the like. One day a friend (distinctly middle-aged and driving an upscale car) was driving by and he noticed the gates were open. There was no guard, no guard house (just a keypad and intercom at the gate) and no one in sight so he decided to drive in and see how the rich people lived. He hadn’t gotten five houses in when a secuity car pulled up next to him, politely forced him to the curb and blocked him in. The security guard hopped out and very politely asked him what his business was. The guard (always polite) then “escorted” him back to the main road. My friend swore up and down there was no indication of human life when he pulled in, but it took only seconds for the guard to catch him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-cost-a-lot-to-make-a-gated-community/587311.md?page=3)