# Does it look like President Obama bowed? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 9, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529 "2009-04-09T17:15:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/21 "2009-04-10T02:49:00Z")
If it riles up righties, it’s a net good. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/22 "2009-04-10T05:04:54Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > The line that the outraged are going with is more along the lines of "oh, so Obama manhandles the Queen of England 😕 Did I miss something? I remember a kerfluffle about _Michelle_ Obama putting her arm on the queen’s back when the queen put her arm on Michelle’s back. ---
**Author:** ![sjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@sjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjc)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/23 "2009-04-10T05:06:22Z")
It kind of looks like a bow to me, kind of not. ---
**Author:** ![Peanut\_Gallery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/838e76/32.png) [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/24 "2009-04-10T14:58:00Z")
He bowed. At first I was a little shocked to see our president bowing to anyone, but after reading some R congressman’s outraged comments, I realized that it is probably a good thing. He compared it to Obama admitting to American arrogance last week, which to me was spot on. A little humility is good for America. Then again … The \*Saudi \*king? ugh. While much Change has occurred, the era of sucking Saudi Arabia’s cock has certainly not ended (omg maybe he was going for it right in front of everyone?!). And the era of bald-face lying from the White House press office is still going strong as well. And somebody mentioned upthread that he bowed for the Brits. I don’t think he did. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/25 "2009-04-10T15:18:06Z")
He gave him a bow job. What does that tell you about politics and international deals?Not a thing. He was showing respect. What will he do when he greets the Japanese dignitaries? I suppose a courteous bow to show we respect their traditions. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/26 "2009-04-10T15:42:48Z")
I saw some footage on Frontline of Margaret Thatcher meeting with the Saudi king, and it struck me that she did a quick bow too. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/27 "2009-04-10T15:48:16Z")
The President should not bow to any king because technically, as heads of state, they are of equal stature. If the U.S. President bows to a king, the king should bow back. Since as a matter of principle, people do not bow to presidents (goes agaist democratic ideals), no bowing at all should pccur. Margaret Thatcher, OTOH, was not head of state. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/28 "2009-04-10T15:55:55Z")
Yes, he bowed. No, I don’t give a shit. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/29 "2009-04-10T16:21:02Z")
It’s called diplomacy. The King’s protocol demands a bow, the US demands none. So, you start your handshake from two steps out, while the king is sitting,and try to pass off a half-bow half-reach in order to give plausable deniability on both sides. It’s called allowing each side to save face. Was it executed with the grace of a ballet dancer? Decidedly not. In fact, I expected better from this athlete. It is to be expected, however, that conservatives will dissect President Obama’s every move and twitch in an attempt to assuage the humiliation they suffered under their recent non-champions. “Look, look, THAT could be construed as a mistake! ! !” they cry, as if that somehow erases eight years of W’s idiocy. Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/30 "2009-04-10T16:28:21Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > 😕 > Did I miss something? > I remember a kerfluffle about _Michelle_ Obama putting her arm on the queen’s back when the queen put her arm on Michelle’s back. There was also the incident when Obama, in a two-on-two pick up game with Her Majesty and Prince Philip, hip-checked the queen while she was going for a lay-up. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/31 "2009-04-10T16:49:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Manufactured outrage, yes. I don’t know if it was a bow, but I don’t give a shit if he did. > > At least he didn’t tongue kiss the guy and hold hands with him like Bush always did with his Saudi boyfriends. See now, the “Obama bow vs non-bow” issue has nothing to do with the second paragraph of your comment. Whether Obama bowed or not, and how the White House staff handled it, has nothing to do with Bush. We’ve come to learn the press will cover this stuff and it doesn’t matter who is in office. Let it go. What is funny is how the White House is handling it. Forget the bow; that’s secondary to the story/comedy of how no one can just admit a mistake and move on. Big whoop. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/32 "2009-04-10T18:43:11Z")
Well, if he did NOT intend to bow, why should the White House say he did? Do we want the White House to lie? I appreciate their honesty in admitting that Obama did not bow, even though it’s marginally to their political detriment to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/33 "2009-04-10T19:36:08Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > But it’s kind of strange that he would do it. Wouldn’t he be briefed on how to greet the head of state? Given the DVD set to Brown and the iPod and physical familarity to the Queen, and now this, I’d say that there doesn’t seem to be anybody in the administration who knows much about protocol with foreign leaders. The problem with these types of gaffes is that it damages Obama’s gravitas as a leader. I would imagine he’s getting a rep among the world’s leaders as a lightweight with little experience who is just winging it on what he thinks seems to be the right thing to do while at the same time placing little import on finding out otherwise. Still, I’m more unhappy with the White House denials than I am over the bow. CYA crap like that is hardly what people who were expecting change from the politics of old thought they were getting when they voted for Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/34 "2009-04-10T19:41:27Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Given the DVD set to Brown and the iPod and physical familarity to the Queen, and now this, I’d say that there doesn’t seem to be anybody in the administration who knows much about protocol with foreign leaders. > > The problem with these types of gaffes is that it damages Obama’s gravitas as a leader. I would imagine he’s getting a rep among the world’s leaders as a lightweight with little experience who is just winging it on what he thinks seems to be the right thing to do while at the same time placing little import on finding out otherwise. > > Still, I’m more unhappy with the White House denials than I am over the bow. CYA crap like that is hardly what people who were expecting change from the politics of old thought they were getting when they voted for Obama. Just how much “gravitas” did Bush Jr **ever** demonstrate? As somebody who voted for Obama, I probably know more about what I expected than you do. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/35 "2009-04-10T19:55:41Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The problem with these types of gaffes is that it damages Obama’s gravitas as a leader. If you’re so concerned about Obama’s “gravitas as a leader”, then surely the manufactured right-wing outrage over every little thing he does bothers you, too. If the Conservatives weren’t so busy trying to catch him in a fumble (or make one up, if he doesn’t provide), nobody would be focused on such minor crap such as what he gave the Queen as a gift. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/36 "2009-04-10T20:18:36Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Given the DVD set to Brown and the iPod and physical familarity to the Queen, and now this, I’d say that there doesn’t seem to be anybody in the administration who knows much about protocol with foreign leaders. > > The problem with these types of gaffes is that it damages Obama’s gravitas as a leader. I would imagine he’s getting a rep among the world’s leaders as a lightweight with little experience who is just winging it on what he thinks seems to be the right thing to do while at the same time placing little import on finding out otherwise. > > Still, I’m more unhappy with the White House denials than I am over the bow. CYA crap like that is hardly what people who were expecting change from the politics of old thought they were getting when they voted for Obama. Can we agree that so long as the GOP is run by some guy named “Boner,” they can not lecture us on “gravitas”? > [@](#): > > I would imagine he’s getting a rep among the world’s leaders as a lightweight with little experience who is just winging it on what he thinks seems to be the right thing to do while at the same time placing little import on finding out otherwise. This, of course, is your typical modern-conservative utterly-clueless horseshit. Foreign leaders do not give a shit about what kind of swag they get at G20 summits. What matters in diplomacy is the ability to make a convincing case that cooperation with your country’s economic, military, and political ambitions furthers your would-be ally’s own national interests. W was _ **famously** _ bad at this. Remember W’s “looked into his soul” gaffe with Putin? W said that because he wanted Russia to acquiesce in American policies that the Russians thought ran counter to their military interests. What did W, that paragon of protocol, do? He thought that if he buttered Putin up on the world stage, he could melt Putin’s heart and he would capitulate. This, folks, is what counts as amateur hour in international diplomacy, not a gift of an iPod. It really is sort of shocking to see the GOP, once the party of Kissinger, be so enamored with its fatuous populistic folksiness and anti-intellectualism that they have become the laughing stock of the diplomatic community. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/37 "2009-04-10T20:35:04Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Foreign leaders do not give a shit about what kind of swag they get at G20 summits. Foreign leaders size up other foreign leaders in terms of savvy or gullibility. A president whose adminstration is ignorant even of the most basic of diplomatic protocols is not one who is going to command respect, or as I said, gravitas. If he is ignorant of even the most basic protocols among heads of state (by virtue of having no one in his administration who knows better, presumably), the easy assumption for the world’s leaders to make is that he is a tyro and can be taken advantage of. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/38 "2009-04-10T21:28:28Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > If he is ignorant of even the most basic protocols among heads of state (by virtue of having no one in his administration who knows better, presumably), the easy assumption for the world’s leaders to make is that he is a tyro and can be taken advantage of. It seems to me that it would be far more desirable to be perceived as more of a rube than you actually are. If that’s the case, it puts him in a far superior tactical position. It’s always better to be “misunderestimated”, right? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/39 "2009-04-10T22:36:01Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The problem with these types of gaffes is that it damages Obama’s gravitas as a leader. Damages his what? He made a rookie mistake. To lie about it is becoming reflexive for this White House. It’s getting like Clinton - he lies even when it is obviously clear that he is lying. Now if he had rubbed some German shoulders - now _there’s_ something to get outraged at! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/40 "2009-04-10T22:44:36Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The problem with these types of gaffes is that it damages Obama’s gravitas as a leader. I would imagine he’s getting a rep among the world’s leaders as a lightweight with little experience who is just winging it on what he thinks seems to be the right thing to do while at the same time placing little import on finding out otherwise. Actually, while I agree with you with this in general, I don’t think this specific incident is one that’s going to hurt his gravitas abroad - I mean, even American citizens seem divided on the extent to which he should have bowed or not. Were it a mistake of omission - as with the somewhat crappy gifts - i’d agree with you, but this seems more a sin of comission, in that he went further than he should have. In all honesty, I can’t see foreign leaders thinking, “That Obama - he showed me slightly more respect than necessary! That moron!”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529.md?page=3)