# Does it look like President Obama bowed? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 9, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529 "2009-04-09T17:15:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/41 "2009-04-10T23:00:16Z")
Until he leaves a multi-national summit gleefully declaring, “Goodbye from the world’s biggest polluter.” I will not be too worried about Obama’s _gravitas_. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/42 "2009-04-10T23:48:27Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I would imagine he’s getting a rep among the world’s leaders as a lightweight with little experience who is just winging it on what he thinks seems to be the right thing to do while at the same time placing little import on finding out otherwise. Except that you have no idea what the fuck world leaders think, because you’re not remotely close to their situation and never will be. Nobody gives a shit about this except conservatives who wouldn’t have said a goddamn thing if Bush had done it, and didn’t when Bush rubbed Angela Merkel’s shoulders and mispronounced her name. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/43 "2009-04-11T00:51:52Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The President should not bow to any king because technically, as heads of state, they are of equal stature. If the U.S. President bows to a king, the king should bow back. Since as a matter of principle, people do not bow to presidents (goes agaist democratic ideals), no bowing at all should pccur. Right. As the official representative of the United States, it’s inappropriate for him to bow to a fellow foreign head of state, because that’s a sign of subordination. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/44 "2009-04-11T01:18:53Z")
I didn’t read through the whole thread but where is the protocal staff in all this? They’ve been around for years and are suppose to advise new Presidents. What’s next, is the President going to start kissing the Pope’s ring? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/45 "2009-04-11T02:31:09Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Right. As the official representative of the United States, it’s inappropriate for him to bow to a fellow foreign head of state, because that’s a sign of subordination. So do I start sending my taxes to the guy, now? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/46 "2009-04-11T04:31:55Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > So do I start sending my taxes to the guy, now? The King of Saudi Arabia? Don’t worry…with oil prices being what they are, you already do. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/47 "2009-04-11T05:21:51Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Foreign leaders size up other foreign leaders in terms of savvy or gullibility. A president whose adminstration is ignorant even of the most basic of diplomatic protocols is not one who is going to command respect, or as I said, gravitas. If he is ignorant of even the most basic protocols among heads of state (by virtue of having no one in his administration who knows better, presumably), the easy assumption for the world’s leaders to make is that he is a tyro and can be taken advantage of. These kinds of rules are actually for people that _don’t_ command a natural respect. Those folks are given a set of rules to follow, so as to appear as one deserving of respect, and then hopefully to actually become respected. When one is _already_ respected, based on knowledge, morals, or just plain ol’ swagger, one doesn’t have to follow any set in stone rules of protocal. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/48 "2009-04-11T10:56:14Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Just how much “gravitas” did Bush Jr **ever** demonstrate? Well, I don’t think he ever vomited on anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/49 "2009-04-11T15:50:59Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Now if he had rubbed some German shoulders - now _there’s_ something to get outraged at! I must admit, I’m finding the concept of _Bush voters_ telling us that Obama embarrassed the country \*very \*amusing. There’s some sweet cognitive dissonance, right there. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/50 "2009-04-11T16:46:00Z")
At least he didn’t give him a terrorist fist bump. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/51 "2009-04-11T17:23:25Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Right. As the official representative of the United States, it’s inappropriate for him to bow to a fellow foreign head of state, because that’s a sign of subordination. Disagree. It’s a sign of respect and custom and nothing more. Even British subjects who are given an audience with the Queen for whatever reason are told that they may bow or curtsey if they wish, but not to attempt it if they can’t do it gracefully. A simple nod of the head is sufficient. This was covered in a recent series about the British monarchy. Obama should have done the nod, as the bow just looked amateurish. Hey, as long as he’s not flying another country’s flag above ours, it’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/52 "2009-04-11T17:36:25Z")
> [@](#): > > The President should not bow to any king because technically, as heads of state, they are of equal stature. Being equal, it is perfectly appropriate for the guest to show respect for the host, in whatever manner is traditional in the host’s country. Frankly, I’d have been slightly upset if Obama hadn’t bowed, and find the Press Office’s denial that he did doubly disappointing. Just to reiterate, a bow is not, and never has been, a sign of subordination-- That’s a kneel, and it would therefore have been quite inappropriate for the President to kneel to anyone. A bow is a sign of respect, which is perfectly acceptable and proper from a President. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/53 "2009-04-11T20:07:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Being equal, it is perfectly appropriate for the guest to show respect for the host, in whatever manner is traditional in the host’s country. Frankly, I’d have been slightly upset if Obama hadn’t bowed, and find the Press Office’s denial that he did doubly disappointing. Well, neither of them are the host in this case, as the meeting was in London. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/54 "2009-04-11T23:14:55Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Just to reiterate, a bow is not, and never has been, a sign of subordination-- That’s a kneel, and it would therefore have been quite inappropriate for the President to kneel to anyone. Except for Zod, of course. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/55 "2009-04-12T00:20:40Z")
Only two nations at the G20 brought any royalty. By centuries-old protocol, it is proper to bow to kings and queens. President Obama bowed to the Queen of the United Kingdom and the king of Saudi Arabia. So, what’s the problem? In our peculiar political system, this is known as a manufactured controversy. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/56 "2009-04-12T01:34:14Z")
I am glad he bowed, it makes the tightiy-righties look foolish to get so worked up about it. The more they try to incite outrage, the more people move away from their pathetic politics. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/57 "2009-04-12T01:57:23Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > Only two nations at the G20 brought any royalty. By centuries-old protocol, it is proper to bow to kings and queens. President Obama bowed to the Queen of the United Kingdom and the king of Saudi Arabia. So, what’s the problem? Americans shouldn’t bow to kings, and Americans shouldn’t respect kings. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/58 "2009-04-12T02:23:12Z")
Should he have spit on QE2? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/59 "2009-04-12T02:24:07Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Americans shouldn’t bow to kings, and Americans shouldn’t respect kings. Why not? Is our freedom so fragile it cannot survive a meaningless gesture? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/60 "2009-04-12T02:49:30Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Why not? Is our freedom so fragile it cannot survive a meaningless gesture? Of course not, but the institution of monarchy is evil, and America should do its best to spread republican ideals of equality whenever possible. And you don’t do that by respecting archaic vestiges of class and feudalism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529.md?page=4)