# Does it look like President Obama bowed? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 9, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529 "2009-04-09T17:15:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/61 "2009-04-12T02:54:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Just to reiterate, a bow is not, and never has been, a sign of subordination– > That’s a kneel, and it would therefore have been quite inappropriate for the President to kneel to anyone. A bow is a sign of respect, which is perfectly acceptable and proper from a President. If that were true the White House wouldn’t be denying he bowed. When someone bows before a king it is a subordinate gesture. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/62 "2009-04-12T03:10:39Z")
No it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/63 "2009-04-12T03:21:06Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Of course not, but the institution of monarchy is evil, What the hell? Since when? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/64 "2009-04-12T03:55:15Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > What the hell? Since when? Always has been. What do you think the American Revolution was about? The French Revolution, the English Civil War…they were all attempts to overthrow the idea that one person had the right to rule over another merely because of an accident of birth. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/65 "2009-04-12T04:10:49Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Always has been. What do you think the American Revolution was about? No, that is not why the Colonies rebelled. “Taxation without representation” ring a bell? Monarchies are not inherently repressive, but when they are, their subjects sometimes rebel. But that happens to other forms of government as well. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/66 "2009-04-13T01:28:35Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > No, that is not why the Colonies rebelled. “Taxation without representation” ring a bell? To wit > [@Thomas Paine](#): > > But it is not so much the absurdity as the evil of hereditary succession which concerns mankind. Did it ensure a race of good and wise men it would have the seal of divine authority, but as it opens a door to the FOOLISH, the WICKED, and the IMPROPER, it hath in it the nature of oppression. Men who look upon themselves born to reign, and others to obey, soon grow insolent. Selected from the rest of mankind, their minds are early poisoned by importance; and the world they act in differs so materially from the world at large, that they have but little opportunity of knowing its true interests, and when they succeed in the government are frequently the most ignorant and unfit of any throughout the dominions.. . . > > In short, monarchy and succession have laid (not this or that kingdom only) but the world in blood and ashes. 'Tis a form of government which the word of God bears testimony against, and blood will attend it. . . . > > Men fall out with names without understanding them. For 'tis the Republican and not the Monarchical part of the Constitution of England which Englishmen glory in, viz. the liberty of choosing an House of Commons from out of their own body — and it is easy to see that when Republican virtues fail, slavery ensues. Why is the constitution of England sickly, but because monarchy hath poisoned the Republic; the Crown hath engrossed the Commons. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/67 "2009-04-13T05:42:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No it isn’t. Yes it is, which is why the White House press is denying it. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/68 "2009-04-13T05:53:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes it is, which is why the White House press is denying it. Well, they _could_ be denying it because they realize that many people _mistake_ bowing as a subordinate gesture. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/69 "2009-04-13T06:01:41Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Well, they _could_ be denying it because they realize that many people _mistake_ bowing as a subordinate gesture. Do gestures have any meaning beyond what people perceive them to have? ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/70 "2009-04-13T06:36:43Z")
He bowed. He shouldn’t have. Here’s a [funny T-shirt](http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/frustrations/58f5/) that says “Bow before me, for I am root” I’m sure the above reference, and most people, don’t take a one-sided bow as anything but a show of subordination. In Japan, where I believe both parties bow, it’s more of a polite gesture, and not subordination. Though, even there, I believe that when two people of unequal status bow, the one with the lower status bows more. In general: If you bow more than the other guy: not cool. I don’t believe the Saudi king reciprocated the bow, did he? Just because the right-wingers are saying something doesn’t make it wrong. They can get some things right sometimes. Of course, this is not worth frothing at the mouth, but this is not something the US president should be doing. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/71 "2009-04-13T06:51:15Z")
What he said. It was a mistake, but it wasn’t that big a deal. Would have made a terrific 2nd-season \*West Wing \*episode, though. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/72 "2009-04-13T07:05:56Z")
The video evidence is clear that he bowed. Whether or not he should (and he shouldn’t), I’m extremely disappointing in the new administration that they can’t tell the straight truth. I’m a philosophical Republican who hates George W. What I want out of Obama is at least a policy of honesty. Is that really, truly too much to ask of a prominent politician? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/73 "2009-04-13T15:40:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Does it look like President Obama bowed? Yes. Just another film clip on the Apologize For America Tour 2009. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/74 "2009-04-13T15:43:12Z")
Exactly! ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/75 "2009-04-13T16:07:24Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > the Apologize For America Tour 2009. Made necessary by all the morons who voted for Bush - twice! ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/76 "2009-04-13T16:33:59Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > I don’t believe the Saudi king reciprocated the bow, did he? When the Saudi King called Obama “Mr. President”, does that mean that he considers Obama to be the President of Saudi Arabia? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/77 "2009-04-13T18:25:41Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Made necessary by all the morons who voted for Bush - twice! Are you for real? You actually support and condone the idiotic actions of Obama over the last couple of weeks? \ Cecil, we’ve lost the war. You might as well give it up. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/78 "2009-04-13T18:43:36Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Are you for real? You actually support and condone the idiotic actions of Obama over the last couple of weeks? > > \ Cecil, we’ve lost the war. You might as well give it up. Oh, bullshit! Bush’s “diplomacy” has lost us more respect and goodwill than we even HAD when he took his first Oath of Office. He was a bumbling, swaggering cowboy who destroyed our image around the world. Obama is _starting_ to repair that by acknowledging that we are one country among many instead of taking the “Big Dog” philosophy to heart. I love America. And I hate what Bush did to it the last 8 years. And I love what Obama is doing to repair that damage. Seriously, “idiotic actions”? Are you even living in the same world as the rest of us? Turn off the Fox News and join us in Reality Land. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/79 "2009-04-13T19:09:04Z")
Obama has been appearing to be too eager to pin blame on the U.S., and sometimes even when there’s been no particular outcry (I refer to Hillary declaring that Mexico’s criminal drug problem is largely our fault because we have so many addicts, and that their gun problem is largely our fault because we have so many guns that can be smuggled in, etc.), and projecting the image that he’s such a newbie and so naive that he can easily be taken advantage of. All he would have to do to improve relations around the world (and whether the need actually exists or whether it is just media hype. I’ve spoken with enough people from other countries who think Bush and the U.S. have been in the right to have my doubts) is to do what everyone expected him to do to begin with: govern in such a way as to engender respect. Respect has to be earned, and running around the world making protocol gaffes and bowing and scraping to foreign leaders (and _Saudi_ ones at that; I can only imagine the reaction around here had Bush or Reagan made such a gesture to the leader of such a misogynistic country) is not the way to do it. He needs to show strength and honesty and shrewdness, and he needs to develop a track record of having made the right choices and governing in an effective and honorable way. As it is, it’s like he’s running around the world with a “Kick me” sign on his back. ---
**Author:** ![lalenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@lalenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalenin)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529/80 "2009-04-13T19:56:16Z")
Not that I expect to make a difference here but, please remember the forum. If you’d like to discuss other aspects of the bow/non-bow open your own thread in GD of the Pit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-look-like-president-obama-bowed/492529.md?page=5)