If that were true the White House wouldn’t be denying he bowed.
When someone bows before a king it is a subordinate gesture.
No it isn’t.
What the hell? Since when?
Always has been. What do you think the American Revolution was about? The French Revolution, the English Civil War…they were all attempts to overthrow the idea that one person had the right to rule over another merely because of an accident of birth.
No, that is not why the Colonies rebelled. “Taxation without representation” ring a bell?
Monarchies are not inherently repressive, but when they are, their subjects sometimes rebel. But that happens to other forms of government as well.
To wit
Yes it is, which is why the White House press is denying it.
Well, they could be denying it because they realize that many people mistake bowing as a subordinate gesture.
Do gestures have any meaning beyond what people perceive them to have?
He bowed. He shouldn’t have.
Here’s a funny T-shirt that says “Bow before me, for I am root”
I’m sure the above reference, and most people, don’t take a one-sided bow as anything but a show of subordination.
In Japan, where I believe both parties bow, it’s more of a polite gesture, and not subordination. Though, even there, I believe that when two people of unequal status bow, the one with the lower status bows more.
In general: If you bow more than the other guy: not cool.
I don’t believe the Saudi king reciprocated the bow, did he?
Just because the right-wingers are saying something doesn’t make it wrong. They can get some things right sometimes. Of course, this is not worth frothing at the mouth, but this is not something the US president should be doing.
What he said.
It was a mistake, but it wasn’t that big a deal.
Would have made a terrific 2nd-season *West Wing *episode, though.
The video evidence is clear that he bowed. Whether or not he should (and he shouldn’t), I’m extremely disappointing in the new administration that they can’t tell the straight truth.
I’m a philosophical Republican who hates George W. What I want out of Obama is at least a policy of honesty. Is that really, truly too much to ask of a prominent politician?
Yes.
Just another film clip on the Apologize For America Tour 2009.
Exactly!
Made necessary by all the morons who voted for Bush - twice!
When the Saudi King called Obama “Mr. President”, does that mean that he considers Obama to be the President of Saudi Arabia?
Are you for real? You actually support and condone the idiotic actions of Obama over the last couple of weeks?
<Clothahump looks up at the Fighting Ignorance Since 1973 masthead> Cecil, we’ve lost the war. You might as well give it up.
Oh, bullshit! Bush’s “diplomacy” has lost us more respect and goodwill than we even HAD when he took his first Oath of Office. He was a bumbling, swaggering cowboy who destroyed our image around the world. Obama is starting to repair that by acknowledging that we are one country among many instead of taking the “Big Dog” philosophy to heart. I love America. And I hate what Bush did to it the last 8 years. And I love what Obama is doing to repair that damage.
Seriously, “idiotic actions”? Are you even living in the same world as the rest of us? Turn off the Fox News and join us in Reality Land.
Obama has been appearing to be too eager to pin blame on the U.S., and sometimes even when there’s been no particular outcry (I refer to Hillary declaring that Mexico’s criminal drug problem is largely our fault because we have so many addicts, and that their gun problem is largely our fault because we have so many guns that can be smuggled in, etc.), and projecting the image that he’s such a newbie and so naive that he can easily be taken advantage of.
All he would have to do to improve relations around the world (and whether the need actually exists or whether it is just media hype. I’ve spoken with enough people from other countries who think Bush and the U.S. have been in the right to have my doubts) is to do what everyone expected him to do to begin with: govern in such a way as to engender respect. Respect has to be earned, and running around the world making protocol gaffes and bowing and scraping to foreign leaders (and Saudi ones at that; I can only imagine the reaction around here had Bush or Reagan made such a gesture to the leader of such a misogynistic country) is not the way to do it.
He needs to show strength and honesty and shrewdness, and he needs to develop a track record of having made the right choices and governing in an effective and honorable way.
As it is, it’s like he’s running around the world with a “Kick me” sign on his back.
Not that I expect to make a difference here but, please remember the forum. If you’d like to discuss other aspects of the bow/non-bow open your own thread in GD of the Pit.