# Does it make sense to count people on probation or on parole in with prisoners **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 9, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-count-people-on-probation-or-on-parole-in-with-prisoners/383493 "2006-12-09T19:46:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![According\_to\_Pliny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@According\_to\_Pliny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/According_to_Pliny)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-count-people-on-probation-or-on-parole-in-with-prisoners/383493/1 "2006-12-09T19:46:03Z")
[U.S. has most prisoners in world due to tough laws](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061209/ts_nm/usa_prisoners_dc_1) Seems to me that’s not doing the math right. I can’t weep too hard for felons out on parole. And I also wonder about the number out on bail. How they fit into the story? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-count-people-on-probation-or-on-parole-in-with-prisoners/383493/2 "2006-12-09T20:01:35Z")
People that are out on bail have not been convicted of the most recent charge…yet. Bail or Bond is just a promise to appear at trial secured by some form of property that would be otherwise forfeited. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-count-people-on-probation-or-on-parole-in-with-prisoners/383493/3 "2006-12-09T20:02:07Z")
The article is a bit confusingly written (why, oh why do the news media always present data in prose that cry out for tables?). It looks to me like the parole/probation population is only ever mentioned in the “7 million” figure, while after that everything refers to people actually behind bars (the incarceration rate of 737/100,000 is consistent with the 2.2 million Americans in prison/jail as a proportion of population). ---
**Author:** ![Zany\_Zeolite\_Zipper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zany\_Zeolite\_Zipper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zany_Zeolite_Zipper)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-count-people-on-probation-or-on-parole-in-with-prisoners/383493/4 "2006-12-09T20:04:17Z")
I think the intent of the article is to show the number of people under the control of Corrections USA, so in that case it would make sense to count the people on Probation or Parole. They stated the actual number of people in US prisons, so I don’t think there was any intent to decieve. I agree with tschild, they should have used a table. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2006, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-count-people-on-probation-or-on-parole-in-with-prisoners/383493/5 "2006-12-10T21:34:52Z")
Answering the question more generally than presented: It depends on the context. If you have A number of prisoners incarcerated, B number released/dying in prison annually, C the average number sentenced to incarceration, and D on probation/parole, then: [ul][li]You need A+C-B number of cells (or the proportionate number if some prisoners share cells), and all the ancillary support facilities (dining hall, **Qadgop** ’s clinic, N square feet of exercise yard, etc.[/li][li]You need the number of prison employees it takes to adequately supervise and provide for A+C-B prisoners, **plus** f(D) number of probation and parole officers and their support staff (supervisors, secretary/receptionists, etc.) where f(D) is based on the number of probationers/parolees one officer can supervise.[/li][li]For a list of people serving sentences, the ones on the street on conditions of probation or parole do count. For a list of people incarcerated, they don’t.[/ul][/li] So the only fair answer is a firm and definite maybe. There are times the releasees **should** count, and times they should **not** – depending on where you’re going with the statistics.