# Does it make sense to invent or create a car alarm that ... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 13, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-invent-or-create-a-car-alarm-that/695463 "2014-08-13T20:57:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-invent-or-create-a-car-alarm-that/695463/1 "2014-08-13T20:57:51Z")
I recently posted a thread in this forum about a dog walker in British Columbia who left several dogs in an enclosed pickup truck and several of them died. > **[B.C. dog walker charged in deaths of 6 dogs | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/emma-paulsen-b-c-dog-walker-charged-in-deaths-of-6-dogs-1.2732796)** > > Emma Paulsen, the dog walker alleged to have dumped the bodies of six dogs in a ditch in Abbotsford, B.C., is now facing six charges related to their deaths. Then, the next day, I saw the following article about a doctor who was jailed after 9 spaniels died in his SUV. [http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20140813/PC16/140819755/1177](http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20140813/PC16/140819755/1177) Interesting that one line in that story quotes the doctor saying he felt “as bad as anyone” about the dead dogs. But, I bet he didn’t feel as bad as the dogs did. I’d like to wonder out loud if it might be a good idea to invent some kind of alarm that would sound when someone leaves one or more living creatures in an enclosed vehicle and the temperature begins to rise too quickly and/or reaches a temperature that is too dangerous to the health of those creatures. I’m thinking of an alarm somewhat like a car alarm that would squeal and would call out, "Someone has left one or more creatures (probably would be better to use a different word) in this enclosed vehicle and the temperature is climbing too quickly or has risen too high and it is unsafe. Please call 911. Is this sort of device reasonable? Or is it a dumb idea? Lately I seem to have gotten too many dumb ideas and so I’m a bit nervous about suggesting this. But at the same time, I have been seeing so many living creatures die or suffer serious injuries after having been left in an enclosed vehicle that I’d really like to see some way to help or prevent this from happening. Do you have any suggestions? Maybe I should just stop posting new threads for a while? ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-invent-or-create-a-car-alarm-that/695463/2 "2014-08-13T21:12:42Z")
From [this](http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html) pulitzer prize winning article on leaving children in hot vehicles: > [@](#): > > In 2000, Chris Edwards, Terry Mack and Edward Modlin began to work on just such a product after one of their colleagues, Kevin Shelton, accidentally left his 9-month-old son to die in the parking lot of NASA Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va. The inventors patented a device with weight sensors and a keychain alarm. Based on aerospace technology, it was easy to use; it was relatively cheap, and it worked. > > Janette Fennell had high hopes for this product: The dramatic narrative behind it, she felt, and the fact that it came from NASA, created a likelihood of widespread publicity and public acceptance. > > That was five years ago. The device still isn’t on the shelves. The inventors could not find a commercial partner willing to manufacture it. One big problem was liability. If you made it, you could face enormous lawsuits if it malfunctioned and a child died. But another big problem was psychological: Marketing studies suggested it wouldn’t sell well. > > The problem is this simple: People think this could never happen to them. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-invent-or-create-a-car-alarm-that/695463/3 "2014-08-13T21:25:04Z")
Thank you for that Yamato. I’m happy to learn that I’m not all alone in thinking this could be a good idea. But there sure are a lot of problems. If a child dies and the alarm fails to ring, that is one kind of failure. If the alarm goes off prematurely or goes off when there was no living thing in the car and someone takes a baseball bat and smashes out all the windows, that is another kind of problem. I suppose someone might also figure they could use this alarm as a safety device. They might lock their kids in the car and run into a store to do some shoping and figure, “I’m safe because if the temperature gets too high, it will warn me.” The result in that case may also be very bad. But surely there are many other kinds of warning devices that have been created and do not result in people getting sued. Is it not possible to do anything about all the deaths and injuries that result from this kind of thing? It sure does seem there are a huge number of cases like this and I would think that something could be done to help. After all, it is so easy to forget you left your kids in the car and the result could just be catastrophic. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-invent-or-create-a-car-alarm-that/695463/4 "2014-08-13T21:42:51Z")
Or more likely people would just ignore it, like they do all car alarms. Although one that reads out a wall of text like the one you designed, may be ignored even more. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-invent-or-create-a-car-alarm-that/695463/5 "2014-08-13T23:15:46Z")
I think it would have to be federally regulated. It’s not an insane idea, but it would have to be cheap. There just aren’t that many cases of this happening in the grand scheme of things, and to be perfectly frank, any value calculation is only going to count humans. In a nutshell, multiply the expected number of human lives saved by $10 million. Compare against the total cost of the devices over the same period of time. If the lives come to a greater value, it makes sense. It _could_ be a very easy system. Many cars already have weight sensors in the seats and thermometers. Not too long from now, most cars will likely have cell network connections, so they can warn both the car owner and possibly 911 (reporting their location via GPS). So not too long from now the technology may be essentially free in most cars. If so, it’s hard to argue against a mandatory system of that nature. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-invent-or-create-a-car-alarm-that/695463/6 "2014-08-13T23:48:23Z")
With most vehicles now days having remote entry and internal computers you’d think they could program them to recognize when a rear door was opened (car running or not) keep it in memory for several minutes to see if the car is then put into drive and then if it is give some type of audible alert when the car is turned off again. Beep… Check for passenger… Beep ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-invent-or-create-a-car-alarm-that/695463/7 "2014-08-13T23:54:53Z")
Yamato’s quote nails it. People think they couldn’t possibly forget a child or even a dog in a car; even when they do it deliberately it’s “just for a minute.” You can’t sell people a device to do something they think they already do. And, from another perspective, we don’t need any more goddamned beeping reminder things to ignore. Stupidity isn’t fixable and those of us who aren’t prone to stupidity shouldn’t have to pay the price for those who are. Anyone else remember the short-short “New Car” from within _Kentucky Fried Movie_? ETA: And of COURSE [it’s on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7u17Tmz5To). ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-invent-or-create-a-car-alarm-that/695463/8 "2014-08-14T00:09:20Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Stupidity isn’t fixable and those of us who aren’t prone to stupidity shouldn’t have to pay the price for those who are. If you think this is solely about “stupidity,” then you didn’t understand the article **Yamato** linked to at all. And if you think you aren’t capable of that kind of mistake, then you are the type of person for which an automated system is most important. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-invent-or-create-a-car-alarm-that/695463/9 "2014-08-14T00:17:44Z")
I’m not sure I completely agree with the legal liability issue. I understand where it’s coming from, but it hasn’t stopped [devices being sold which detect a _lack_ of movement in a baby’s bed](http://www.angelcarebaby.com/item/usa-video-monitor-with-two-sensors-pads-ac401-deluxeplus/#.U-v8g6Pm5uI) from being sold. I’ve never heard of them being sued if they fail to go off when needed (mind you, from experience a false alarm is much more likely). I do agree with other posters that it may be a difficult sell, however. Buying a movement sensor for a baby’s bed is one thing (we all know SIDS could happen to anyone), but buying a device to detect babies or animals left in a car would need one to admit it’s something they may do. I’m not sure I could ever have said to Lady Mondegreen, “I’ve just spent $300 on a sensor for the car in case I forget to take the baby out while I’m at the pub.” I’d love to see such a device included with other safety devices in new cars though. ---
**Author:** ![DingoelGringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DingoelGringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DingoelGringo)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-invent-or-create-a-car-alarm-that/695463/10 "2014-08-14T00:24:03Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I think it would have to be federally regulated. > > It’s not an insane idea, but it would have to be cheap. There just aren’t that many cases of this happening in the grand scheme of things, and to be perfectly frank, any value calculation is only going to count humans. In a nutshell, multiply the expected number of human lives saved by $10 million. Compare against the total cost of the devices over the same period of time. If the lives come to a greater value, it makes sense. > > It _could_ be a very easy system. Many cars already have weight sensors in the seats and thermometers. Not too long from now, most cars will likely have cell network connections, so they can warn both the car owner and possibly 911 (reporting their location via GPS). > > So not too long from now the technology may be essentially free in most cars. If so, it’s hard to argue against a mandatory system of that nature. With the average age of cars on the road now at 13 years it would be a very long time before it was ubiquitous even if mandated manana. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-invent-or-create-a-car-alarm-that/695463/11 "2014-08-14T00:36:37Z")
> [@DingoelGringo](#): > > With the average age of cars on the road now at 13 years it would be a very long time before it was ubiquitous even if mandated manana. No doubt. This would just be one more thing along the same lines as mandatory seat belts, airbags, and electronic stability control. The government can afford to take a long view on safety (not to mention one based on science and economics rather than emotion). ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-invent-or-create-a-car-alarm-that/695463/12 "2014-08-14T00:49:51Z")
I know that some high-end luxury vehicles have a motion sensor in the car that will sound the alarm if someone is locked inside. I heard a story a year or so ago where a guy had his son in the car when he went to work (7-series BMW). When the alarm went off the first time, he went down and turned it off. By the third time, he had enough and called the dealership. His son didn’t live (at least, that was the story I heard). So, it would appear that people truly believe it can’t happen to them. Even when it does, they don’t believe it. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-invent-or-create-a-car-alarm-that/695463/13 "2014-08-14T02:09:09Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I recently posted a thread in this forum about a dog walker in British Columbia who left several dogs in an enclosed pickup truck and several of them died. > > [Emma Paulsen, B.C. dog walker, charged in deaths of 6 dogs | CBC News](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/emma-paulsen-b-c-dog-walker-charged-in-deaths-of-6-dogs-1.2732796) > > Then, the next day, I saw the following article about a doctor who was jailed after 9 spaniels died in his SUV. > > [http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20140813/PC16/140819755/1177](http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20140813/PC16/140819755/1177) > > Interesting that one line in that story quotes the doctor saying he felt “as bad as anyone” about the dead dogs. But, I bet he didn’t feel as bad as the dogs did. > > I’d like to wonder out loud if it might be a good idea to invent some kind of alarm that would sound when someone leaves one or more living creatures in an enclosed vehicle and the temperature begins to rise too quickly and/or reaches a temperature that is too dangerous to the health of those creatures. > > I’m thinking of an alarm somewhat like a car alarm that would squeal and would call out, "Someone has left one or more creatures (probably would be better to use a different word) in this enclosed vehicle and the temperature is climbing too quickly or has risen too high and it is unsafe. Please call 911. > > Is this sort of device reasonable? Or is it a dumb idea? Lately I seem to have gotten too many dumb ideas and so I’m a bit nervous about suggesting this. > > But at the same time, I have been seeing so many living creatures die or suffer serious injuries after having been left in an enclosed vehicle that I’d really like to see some way to help or prevent this from happening. > > Do you have any suggestions? Maybe I should just stop posting new threads for a while? Such a device wouldn’t have helped the dogs in these two cases. Both persons, the dog walker and the doctor, knowingly left the dogs in the backs of their vehicles thinking they would be safe. It wasn’t a case of forgetfulness by either of them. In the case if the dog walker, she said she had left dogs in the back of her truck “hundreds” of times before and they were always OK when she returned to her truck. But it only took one time too many. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-invent-or-create-a-car-alarm-that/695463/14 "2014-08-14T08:29:00Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Such a device wouldn’t have helped the dogs in these two cases. Both persons, the dog walker and the doctor, knowingly left the dogs in the backs of their vehicles thinking they would be safe. It wasn’t a case of forgetfulness by either of them. In the case if the dog walker, she said she had left dogs in the back of her truck “hundreds” of times before and they were always OK when she returned to her truck. But it only took one time too many. Dad gum it. I think you are right about that. Son of a B! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-invent-or-create-a-car-alarm-that/695463/15 "2014-08-14T12:34:47Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Such a device wouldn’t have helped the dogs in these two cases. Both persons, the dog walker and the doctor, knowingly left the dogs in the backs of their vehicles thinking they would be safe. It wasn’t a case of forgetfulness by either of them. In the case if the dog walker, she said she had left dogs in the back of her truck “hundreds” of times before and they were always OK when she returned to her truck. But it only took one time too many. Right. [About half the children who die in cars were “forgotten” by their caregiver.](http://www.ggweather.com/heat/#stats) (I don’t know what it means that the word forgotten is in quotes - is it a quote or does it mean they didn’t forget them as such, but just left them there too long?) The other half either got into an unattended car without a parent/guardian knowing about it or they were left in the car deliberately. [Here’s another recent thread about this alarm idea.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17517677) It’s not a bad idea and if it were coupled with something like a temperature sensor it would be even better because then even a parent who deliberately leaves a child in the car will know if the temperature reaches a dangerous level. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-invent-or-create-a-car-alarm-that/695463/16 "2014-08-14T13:18:37Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > If you think this is solely about “stupidity,” then you didn’t understand the article **Yamato** linked to at all. And if you think you aren’t capable of that kind of mistake, then you are the type of person for which an automated system is most important. I am specifically referring to stupidity that can be countered by yet another mandated alarm or reminder. People still leave their headlights on, keys in the ignition, forget seat belts, etc. despite decades of alarms for such things. We tune them out. > [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > I heard a story a year or so ago where a guy had his son in the car when he went to work (7-series BMW). When the alarm went off the first time, he went down and turned it off. By the third time, he had enough and called the dealership. His son didn’t live (at least, that was the story I heard). As Groucho said, I arrest my case.