# Does it make sense to say "I'm proud to be an American." **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 13, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-say-im-proud-to-be-an-american/578177 "2011-04-13T01:20:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SSgtBaloo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac91a4/32.png) [@SSgtBaloo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SSgtBaloo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-say-im-proud-to-be-an-american/578177/61 "2011-04-15T19:30:53Z")
> [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](#): > > I can’t speak for **jimm** or the OP, but yes, I have felt this kind of civic pride. It is a natural human emotion. I don’t think anyone here is claiming that civic pride isn’t “real.” > > That said: I think it is irrational, and that we should fight against it. I beg to differ. When I am emotionally invested in my community (and am not an idiot) I will recognize when something needs to be fixed, and enlist the aid of my fellow community members in correcting the flaw. This may involve educating people as to the nature of the problem or even convincing them the problem even exists (the elephant in the living room is notoriously difficult to perceive). ---
**Author:** ![Ruby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@Ruby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruby)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-say-im-proud-to-be-an-american/578177/62 "2011-04-16T01:42:00Z")
> [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](#): > > \That said: I think it is irrational, and that we should fight against it. I respectfully disagree with this. Civic pride is that sense of belonging, the commitment to the greater good of the group as a whole. The minute we feel that we as individuals have no need for that commitment, our society is doomed to fail. Pride in the community has been a part of society since the beginning of time from cave men to tribal society to modern civilization. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-say-im-proud-to-be-an-american/578177/63 "2011-04-16T05:26:01Z")
> [@Ruby](#): > > I respectfully disagree with this. Civic pride is that sense of belonging, the commitment to the greater good of the group as a whole. The minute we feel that we as individuals have no need for that commitment, our society is doomed to fail. I feel an ethical obligation to all my fellow humans. I just try not to rank them based on any in-group designations that I happen to share. For example, I don’t go out of my way to buy stuff that says “Made in USA”, as poor people in other countries also need jobs. > [@](#): > > Pride in the community has been a part of society since the beginning of time from cave men to tribal society to modern civilization. I specifically said that I am not denying it’s existence. Why do you feel the need to emphasize that it’s real? ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-say-im-proud-to-be-an-american/578177/64 "2011-04-16T05:28:11Z")
> [@SSgtBaloo](#): > > I beg to differ. When I am emotionally invested in my community (and am not an idiot) I will recognize when something needs to be fixed, and enlist the aid of my fellow community members in correcting the flaw. This may involve educating people as to the nature of the problem or even convincing them the problem even exists (the elephant in the living room is notoriously difficult to perceive). \ Well then I suppose it’s important for you then. If it really does help you be a better person, then have at it. I guess I should have said that _ **I** _ should try to fight against it. ---
**Author:** ![kjw47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kjw47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kjw47)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-say-im-proud-to-be-an-american/578177/65 "2011-04-17T15:54:33Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > America has enough great things in its history to make it worth being proud of. It would be one thing we we tried to whitewash how we treated Blacks during slavery and segregation and how we treated Native Americans generally but we don’t. We criticise ourselves all the time. > > We are the greatest nationn the world has ever known and we have done more to spread freedom and democracy than any other nation in history. > > Yeah, I’m proud to be an American. God says this–They promise you freedom,yet themselves are still slaves to corruption-- Who promises freedom? Gods kingdom has a king-so obviously it is the best form of Govt. He said of democracy-A house divided will not stand. Its men who tell you this is the greatest form of govt. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-say-im-proud-to-be-an-american/578177/66 "2011-04-17T21:33:23Z")
> [@Ruby](#): > > I respectfully disagree with this. Civic pride is that sense of belonging, the commitment to the greater good of the group as a whole. The minute we feel that we as individuals have no need for that commitment, our society is doomed to fail. > > Pride in the community has been a part of society since the beginning of time from cave men to tribal society to modern civilization. The problem that I have with nationalism is not that it builds communities (that’s wonderful) but that it sets us up into an “Us vs Them” dichotomy. There’s the “in group” that we sympathize with, and then the “out group”, the people who are not us that don’t deserve any of our concern or compassion, and that can be be attacked if they inconvenience us for any reason. We evolved as hunter-gatherers. Our “natural” communities are estimated to be about 150. That’s about as many people as you can really get to know personally. The idea of “nations” with millions of people is an artificial construct. It may be a useful construct, but it’s artificial nonetheless. If we can love the artificial construct of “America” with 300 million people, 99.99% of the population of whom we will never know personally, why not extend our identification further and identify with all humanity? Even better, why not all sentient beings in the universe? > [@Albert Einstein](#): > > A human being is a part of the whole, called by us “Universe”, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest — a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely, but the striving for such achievement is in itself a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-make-sense-to-say-im-proud-to-be-an-american/578177.md?page=3)