# Does it violate free will if the person was never given the desire to do something in the first place?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-violate-free-will-if-the-person-was-never-given-the-desire-to-do-something-in-the-first-place/1025339>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [December 2, 2025, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-violate-free-will-if-the-person-was-never-given-the-desire-to-do-something-in-the-first-place/1025339 "2025-12-02T22:09:00Z")\
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**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\
**Post date:** [January 28, 2026, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-it-violate-free-will-if-the-person-was-never-given-the-desire-to-do-something-in-the-first-place/1025339/395 "2026-01-28T12:39:27Z")

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> [@Max\_S](#):
>
> Reformation theologists in the modern era, like Luther, Calvin, Edwards, and Plantinga, tend to view suffering as a necessary means to an end, that end being salvation and ultimately the glory of God.

How _much_ suffering? Some people seem to suffer a great deal more than others.  
So this boils down to either most people having a lot of unnecessary suffering (if the bar for required suffering is very low), or “mysterious ways” (if the bar is different for different people because _reasons_).

> [@PlaceboTarget](#):
>
> Besides, concepts like evil and suffering are hard to define. It’s difficult to imagine a world entirely free of suffering because even minor forms of discomfort like boredom, frustration or dissatisfaction can escalate into terrible distress. Thus, the complete elimination of suffering may be not only unrealistic but incompatible with the psychological and existential structure of conscious beings.

I don’t see that this particularly helps though, given that the world is _also_ very boring, frustrating etc. So it’s almost a problem a lesser evils. Whether it is possible to have a reality with _zero_ boredom, it’s pretty clear we are very far from any optimum.

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