# Does "Joe The Plumber" have a PAC? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 16, 2008, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142 "2008-10-16T03:08:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142/21 "2008-10-16T05:47:52Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I still don’t really get the point of the “Joe the Plumber” story. He wants to buy a plumbing business, and is concerned about Obama’s tax rate for over 250k. But that’s an income tax, right?, its not going to be the same as whatever taxes are leveled on the profits of a plumbing company, right? I brought up this difference in personal income tax vs. corporate tax on business profits during another discussion. I think that you’re right in calling attention to the fact that they’re not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142/22 "2008-10-16T09:23:24Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I brought up this difference in personal income tax vs. corporate tax on business profits during another discussion. I think that you’re right in calling attention to the fact that they’re not the same thing. I’m not sure we’re talking about a corporate tax either. I sort of picture that as only applying to publicly traded companies with multiple owners.It actually occurs to me that I’m not sure how the profits of a small business are taxed. Presumably if the owner takes all that money for his personal use, then its income. But Joe seemed to be worrying about his ability to pay employees and such, which doesn’t seem like it’d be affected by Obama’s income tax. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142/23 "2008-10-16T12:06:54Z")
**[Joe “the Plumber” Wurzelbacher related to Charles “the Crook” Keating.](http://www.eisenstadtgroup.com/2008/10/15/joe-the-plumber-wurzelbacher-related-to-charles-keating-oops/)** At least according to republican consultant and McCain adviser Martin Eisenstadt. And I ripped off his headline because I couldn’t improve on it. > [@](#): > > Turns out that Joe Wurzelbacher from the Toledo event is a close relative of Robert Wurzelbacher of Milford, Ohio. Who’s Robert Wurzelbacher? Only Charles Keating’s son-in-law and the former senior vice president of American Continental, the parent company of the infamous Lincoln Savings and Loan. The now retired elder Wurzelbacher is also a major contributor to Republican causes giving well over $10,000 in the last few years. Also [Joe the Plumber is probably not registered to vote.](http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/The_Joe_file.html) I’m struck dumb by the beauty of it all. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142/24 "2008-10-16T12:07:22Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > According to CNN, Joe the Plumber is a real guy who asked Obama a question last weekend. Apparently “Joe” wants to buy a plumbing business that makes over $250,000/year, but he does not want to pay more taxes. Obama basically told him that that’s the way it would be, but the guy was miffed. > > So… he wants to buy a company that makes over $250,000/year PROFIT. I doubt he’s getting a friendly bank loan these days, so he has, what,… about $2,500,000 to invest in a business? (That assumes a 10% ROI for a plumbing business - I have no idea what it really should be) > > You know… I don’t really feel very sorry for Joe the Plumber. He’s apparently doing pretty good compared to me. That was my big issue with that whole argument last night. The idea of ‘plumber’ cojnures up lower middle class, blue collar worker. But clearly, if the guy can afford to buy a business with this kind of cash flow, he’s _not_ your iconic plumber. It’s pretty disingenuous to imply that he’s just an average dude trying to make it when he’s clearly got more money available to him than many/most middle class families I know. It seems that the real issue is something along the lines of “Joe The Plumber has become wealthy and is not happy about the fact that he’s moved into a higher tax bracket.” Which is a legitimate gripe, but don’t pretend that he’s just this poor guy who’s getting his taxes raised. He’s moving up through the classes and is angry that the taxes he had to pay when he was a poor plumber fighting goombas are not the same taxes he has to pay now that he’s rescued the princess. ---
**Author:** ![Carson\_O\_Genic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Carson\_O\_Genic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carson_O_Genic)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142/25 "2008-10-16T12:17:20Z")
> [@vison](#): > > Some famous American said that plumbers are as important as philosophers. Both your pipes and your theories ought to hold water. ``` Moreso. Plumbers know what to do when they're full of shit. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_First_Time)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142/26 "2008-10-16T12:20:18Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > That was my big issue with that whole argument last night. The idea of ‘plumber’ cojnures up lower middle class, blue collar worker. But clearly, if the guy can afford to buy a business with this kind of cash flow, he’s _not_ your iconic plumber. It’s pretty disingenuous to imply that he’s just an average dude trying to make it when he’s clearly got more money available to him than many/most middle class families I know. > . It seemed that McCain magically made him rich half way through the debate after Obama stated that his tax burden wouldn’t go up under his administration if he were working class. Up till then, it seemed that McCaim was trying to “put a face” on male, white, blue collar voters, i.e. Joe Six-Pack by singling him out. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142/27 "2008-10-16T12:58:07Z")
Rather than Joe the Plumber, this guy sounds more like Joe Millionaire. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142/28 "2008-10-16T13:12:46Z")
To McCain’s Joe Isuzu? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142/29 "2008-10-16T13:12:54Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > Well, cleaning drains and septic tanks is better suited for people with few aspirations. What a snobby, elitist remark. What’s so “low-aspiring” about the vital work of plumbers? They maintain the water and sanitation systems that we all depend on. Why should their job be considered less crucial, or less worthy of aspiration, than the job of some securities broker playing trading games with complicated financial derivatives that he doesn’t really understand and helping crash the credit system? Now **there** ’s an achievement to aspire to. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![born\_too\_late](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba9def/32.png) [@born\_too\_late](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/born_too_late)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142/30 "2008-10-16T13:13:14Z")
> [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](#): > > It seemed that McCain magically made him rich half way through the debate after Obama stated that his tax burden wouldn’t go up under his administration if he were working class. Up till then, it seemed that McCaim was trying to “put a face” on male, white, blue collar voters, i.e. Joe Six-Pack by singling him out. McCain: “Hey, Joe, you’re rich, congratulations!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142/31 "2008-10-16T13:13:16Z")
Transcript of the actual Obama/JtP conversation: [http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/15/1550438.aspx](http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/15/1550438.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142/32 "2008-10-16T13:23:45Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > What a snobby, elitist remark. What’s so “low-aspiring” about the vital work of plumbers? They maintain the water and sanitation systems that we all depend on. Why should their job be considered less crucial, or less worthy of aspiration, than the job of some securities broker playing trading games with complicated financial derivatives that he doesn’t really understand and helping crash the credit system? Now **there** ’s an achievement to aspire to. :rolleyes: Since the joke apparently was too subtle… Drains, septic tanks. Smelly, real bad. The less aspirations (inhalations) you have, the better. Play of Words 101 and Introductory Course to Witticism are advised. ---
**Author:** ![jali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecae2f/32.png) [@jali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jali)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142/33 "2008-10-16T13:23:48Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > What a snobby, elitist remark. What’s so “low-aspiring” about the vital work of plumbers? They maintain the water and sanitation systems that we all depend on. Why should their job be considered less crucial, or less worthy of aspiration, than the job of some securities broker playing trading games with complicated financial derivatives that he doesn’t really understand and helping crash the credit system? Now **there** ’s an achievement to aspire to. :rolleyes: You beat me to it and said it better than I might have. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142/34 "2008-10-16T13:29:56Z")
I misheard _Joe the Plumber_ very early this morning as _Joe Diploma._ Who is, of course, a liberal arts major and member of our permanent educated underclass, and not of much interest to pundits. ---
**Author:** ![Cub\_Mistress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea666f/32.png) [@Cub\_Mistress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cub_Mistress)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142/35 "2008-10-16T13:38:33Z")
Joe Six-Pack has been replaced by Joe Butt-Crack. Incidentally, my plumber is named Joe. I have never seen his butt-crack on display. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142/36 "2008-10-16T13:43:16Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > Since the joke apparently was too subtle… Oh! Okay, yes, that was a bit on the subtle side, but funny when explained. Ignore anti-elitist-snob rant above. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142/37 "2008-10-16T13:51:43Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Ignore anti-elitist-snob rant above. Good, because I don’t like to hang around with snobbish, elitist rabble. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142/38 "2008-10-16T13:59:53Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > Since the joke apparently was too subtle… > > Drains, septic tanks. Smelly, real bad. > The less aspirations (inhalations) you have, the better. > > Play of Words 101 and Introductory Course to Witticism are advised. Ah, the curses of a text only medium. Now that I see the wry smile behind the play on words, I’m less likely to think you an asshole. There goes that nice tirade I had about how a good plumber is one of the most highly skilled people out there. Bad plumbers, OTOH, hove a special place in hell. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142/39 "2008-10-16T14:15:58Z")
> [@Cub\_Mistress](#): > > Joe Six-Pack has been replaced by Joe Butt-Crack. > > Incidentally, my plumber is named Joe. I have never seen his butt-crack on display. I suspect such shoddiness in his adherence to the Plumber’s Dress Code is also apparent in the quality of his work. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142/40 "2008-10-16T14:30:00Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > Oh really? When was the last time you heard of a migrant fruit picker killed by arguing with a parrot? Heehee, I love that joke. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-joe-the-plumber-have-a-pac/468142.md?page=3)