# Does labeling people by race promote racism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 17, 2020, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338 "2020-08-17T17:34:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338/41 "2020-08-18T20:33:29Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > So an anecdote! Great, I have those too! I didn’t cite an anecdote. I cited my experience. There’s a difference. > [@Kearsen1](#): > > Let’s just agree to want evidence before accusations start a flying, yeah? I didn’t say that either. I said we should look for evidence not that we should want it. Looking for evidence is what you do when you are seeking information. Wanting evidence can be used as a way of avoiding an issue; you simply declare that there’s not enough evidence and then make no attempt to find more. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338/42 "2020-08-18T20:42:20Z")
I have yet to say nothing is about race. There may very well be some things about race. Hell, I know that racism is alive and well. What I am against is the subjective application of racism as an excuse for all the woes of POC. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338/43 "2020-08-18T20:43:52Z")
Ok, so don’t use asking for evidence as a stall tactic (which we can all agree is bad form) We should always want evidence, we should always look for evidence. Sometimes there IS not enough evidence to act and that is a feature not a bug. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338/44 "2020-08-18T20:50:06Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > What taking away the labels would do is promote individualism. Treat each person as an individual. If that person is discriminated against, take action against whomever did the discriminating. > If they rise or fall, they do so on their own merits. You can recognize that everyone is going to have different experiences and still not see groups. > [@Kearsen1](#): > > I have yet to say nothing is about race. There may very well be some things about race. > [@Kearsen1](#): > > We should always want evidence, we should always look for evidence. So how are you going to look for evidence that something is about race if you’re going to remove all the labels about race and refuse to see that there are such groups? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338/45 "2020-08-18T20:52:50Z")
When you see the individual racism … You were the one who needed groupings. I’m content with the calling out and dealing with it as it happens individually. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338/46 "2020-08-18T20:55:18Z")
How on earth are you “calling out and dealing with” racism if nobody can be labeled as a member of a race? That makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338/47 "2020-08-18T21:26:11Z")
@Kearsen1, you can’t address racism on an individual level. Let’s say that you have 50 job openings at a company, and two people apply for each one. Obviously, half of the applicants aren’t going to get in. Let’s say that one of those unsuccessful applicants asks why. “Oh, it’s because the other applicant was better-qualified”, or “They were a better fit for our corporate culture”, or “They have more experience”, or whatever. Well, maybe that’s true: In any event, it’s very difficult to disprove. But now, if you look at all 100 applicants, and it turns out that the 50 who got the jobs were all white and the 50 who didn’t were all black, now it’s very easy to see the truth. The racism might have happened at the individual level, but it can’t be addressed at the individual level. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338/48 "2020-08-18T21:36:47Z")
Racists promote racism. If no one saw color, except for racists, does anyone actually think that that would make this a better world? (Other than the racists, who then would be able to get away with racism mush easier.) ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338/49 "2020-08-18T22:18:53Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Actually, no they are not. Very rarely does discrimination happen to a group. If it happens, it happens first and foremost to an individual, would you agree to that? > > Now, what you are conflating is that it happens individually across the board to a group. > > You can decry the individual racism event. Identify , discuss, resolve. You cannot do those things regarding racism towards a group (if it is even a thing) because it doesn’t happen to the entire group. (ever?) > Maybe a large enough sample size of certain individuals that self identify as a group is enough for you, I am not sure it is with me for the simple reason that there are other factors at play. Economic, social, actions. But those things get discarded because it is much (and we have allowed it) easier to cry foul for a simple delineation of skin color to be THE determining factor. > > Do you know that for a fact? I don’t want to get into the argument of defining racism here, but this is not a credible argument. I gave up on worrying and arguing about racism as personal animosity, because that really doesn’t matter that much on a societal scale. My old neighbor hated a lot of people, but he didn’t enact policy that effected millions of people, so I don’t care that much. As others have said, racism is based on group membership. No single act, in isolation, no matter how horrific makes a racist system. If someone working in an office decides he hates all his coworkers and takes action on that hatred, large or small, that does not mean we have an anti-office worker society. As for how racism never happens to a group? Please explain the following things from U.S. history as just series of individual interactions: U.S. chattel slavery (I truly hope you don’t need a cite for this one) [Black Codes](https://www.history.com/topics/black-history/black-codes) [Jim Crow Laws](https://www.crf-usa.org/black-history-month/a-brief-history-of-jim-crow) [Redlining](https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history-of-how-the-u-s-government-segregated-america) [Levittown Agreements](https://www.nytimes.com/1997/12/28/nyregion/at-50-levittown-contends-with-its-legacy-of-bias.html) Then there are the less openly racists, but just as clear things such as: [Drug sentencing guidelines](https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/crack-vrs-powder-cocaine-one-drug-two-penalties.htm) [School discipline disparities](https://www.brookings.edu/research/disproportionality-in-student-discipline-connecting-policy-to-research/) ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338/50 "2020-08-18T23:24:48Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > If we’re going to arbitrarily pick skin color to divide us up (because apparently dividing people up into groups is important), then why don’t we lobby the world to switch to eye color as a means of differentiating people? I was going to make the same point with hair color. FWIW I completely agree with you. When I am asked for race, I always choose other and then specify human. But there are other issues. If, on the basis of past injustices you want to engage in a bit of reparations, then you have to ask about race. I wish that was not necessary, but I am afraid it is. For the record, I am a straight white male (but Jewish) and I haven’t the faintest idea how I have benefited from white privilege, but it is virtually certain that I have. And there may have been occasions where I suffered from anti-semitism, but the couple I am aware of were nothing compared to what Blacks face daily. But the world would be much better off if we didn’t distinguish people by races. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338/51 "2020-08-19T03:24:35Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > The way I see it, people can label themselves, but should not label others This. A _thousand_ times this. Ask someone what race or ethnicity or gender or whatever they’d prefer to be called (and ‘no response’ is a valid answer). There, problem solved. Thread ends. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338/52 "2020-08-19T03:40:08Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > When I am asked for race, I always choose other and then specify human. Ever get turned down for a job because you’re a human? Ever told an apartment isn’t available because you’re a human? Ever been pulled over by a cop because you’re a human? You say you haven’t have any idea how you’ve benefited from white privilege. Well there it is; you can afford to ignore race. People of other races can’t do that; they constantly have to be aware that other people may be judging them based on their skin color. And that people may seek to harm them because of their skin color. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338/53 "2020-08-19T03:44:21Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > This. A _thousand_ times this. Ask someone what race or ethnicity or gender or whatever they’d prefer to be called (and ‘no response’ is a valid answer). > > There, problem solved. Thread ends. And you figure everyone agrees on this? You think we can end racism by just explaining to the racists that black people don’t want to be treated unequally? And the racists will all say “Wow, we had no idea. We always thought they enjoyed it. Now that we’ve been told, we’ll stop.” ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338/54 "2020-08-19T04:07:25Z")
Show me where I said those things. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338/55 "2020-08-19T06:58:01Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > I have been saying this for a long while, racism turned around is also racism. This is some “it’s bigoted to dislike bigots” bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338/56 "2020-08-19T12:09:42Z")
Could you explain what problem it is that is solved by your solution? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338/57 "2020-08-19T12:50:11Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > This. A _thousand_ times this. Ask someone what race or ethnicity or gender or whatever they’d prefer to be called (and ‘no response’ is a valid answer). The problem is that racists don’t need to ask. They already know. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338/58 "2020-08-19T13:06:40Z")
They’re also labeling people by race, and thus promoting racism. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338/59 "2020-08-19T13:08:59Z")
Of course it isn’t bigoted to dislike bigots, but it is bigoted to be bigoted towards bigots. In the same way that racism can be attributed to minority people. (Uless of course you feel like minorities can’t possibly be racist?) Strassia brings up some decent points which I am still digesting. I think my response lies along the vein of, that simply doesn’t happen anymore because we as a nation have moved past that. And racism, while still alive is happening as a huge minority, and not at the legislative or rule making level and can be dealt with appropriately (prosecution, derision, etc) ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338/60 "2020-08-19T13:41:52Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > In the same way that racism can be attributed to minority people I can assure everyone that Mexican Americans can be racist as much as any other people can be. My GF is from Mexico and dislikes Cubans and refers to them with racist comments. Similar to how white people talk about trailer trash. Myself, I don’t get it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-labeling-people-by-race-promote-racism/918338.md?page=4)