# Does Lt. Watada stand any chance of acquittal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 7, 2007, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222 "2007-02-07T16:51:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222/1 "2007-02-07T16:51:31Z")
I didn’t put this in GD because all I’m asking is whether the lieutenant who refused to go to Iraq has any real chance of being acquitted. His argument is that the war in Iraq is illegal, thus to obey the order to go there would be to obey an illegal order. My personal fantasy is that he is found not guilty, thus spurring military officers up and down the ranks to refuse to go, essentially stripping the civilian government of authority over the military, forcing Bush and Cheney to resign and putting Nancy Pelosi in the White House. (Mmmm … Nancy Pelosi in the White House! That’s so hot!) But that’s fantasy. So, in my opinion, is any idea that Lt. Watada won’t do a long stretch in Leavenworth. Anybody else? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222/2 "2007-02-07T16:57:03Z")
The war was approved by Congress. He doesn’t have a leg to stand on legally. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222/3 "2007-02-07T16:59:31Z")
[QUOTE=Sunrazor] My personal fantasy is that he is found not guilty, thus spurring military officers up and down the ranks to refuse to go, **essentially stripping the civilian government of authority over the military** , forcing Bush and Cheney to resign and putting Nancy Pelosi in the White House. (Mmmm … Nancy Pelosi in the White House! That’s so hot!) [/QUOTE] (Bolding mine) Um, perhaps you want to rethink that bolded statement and why if such a thing were to come to pass it would be a very bad thing. Lt. Watada can only be sentenced to a maximum of 4 years, so I don’t think he will get a long stretch in Leavenworth. Also, since going to war is by its nature a political decision and the politicians weighed in and made their decision, the war is not illegal for the purposes of Lt. Watada. He will be convicted, he will do a little time, and he will get on with his life. Given that he is becoming a cause celebre for some I doubt that he will have trouble finding employment even with a dishonorable discharge. But the point must be made that we are NOT allowed to pick and choose. Were we allowed to the military would become essentially useless for all purposes, both foreign AND domestic. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222/4 "2007-02-07T17:09:56Z")
He has no chance of acquittal. Zero. The order to deploy to Iraq is clearly not an illegal order. If he were ordered to torture prisoners, or shoot civilians, or commit some other crime, he would be obligated to disobey that order. But the order to deploy to Iraq was a legal order and he is obligated to obey it. The only question is whether the Army will give him a slap on the wrist and a dishonorable discharge, or make an example of him and give him a dishonorable discharge several years from now. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222/5 "2007-02-07T17:12:15Z")
I’m with you guys. Morally he’s completely in the right–it’s a bad war, undertaken on spurious grounds–but he’s clearly in the wrong legally, and he’s going to jail. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222/6 "2007-02-07T17:13:03Z")
I was thinking of the civilian oversight over military even as I wrote it, but went ahead with it mostly to express my disgust with the way the current administration has abused the finest military in the world. It’s like a turning hundred-thousand-dollar driving machine over to a teen-ager and having him go out and mow down pedestrians with it. And, as I said, it’s pure fantasy anyway. Four years probably doesn’t qualify in most minds as a “long stretch,” but I’d think anything more than a couple of weeks would be pretty unbearable. The worse part, I would think, would be the complete lack of a future afterward. I mean, even those of us who opposed this war from the very beginning have nothing but love and admiration for the men and women who are being ordered to fight it. And while I think I respect the lieutenant’s willingness to throw away his future to make a political statement, I do think he’s put himself in a no-win situation for absolutely no reason. My father always told me, before you dig in, make sure the ditch is worth dying in. I’d like to ask **Airman Doors,** do military folks have any respect or sympathy for this guy? I could see opinion coming in on either side. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222/7 "2007-02-07T17:21:38Z")
[QUOTE=Sunrazor] I’d like to ask **Airman Doors,** do military folks have any respect or sympathy for this guy? I could see opinion coming in on either side. [/QUOTE] Hell, I respect his position. I have no issue with the man personally. In fact, I respect that he’s taking a stand for his beliefs, reminiscent of what Muhammad Ali did during Vietnam. But that doesn’t mitigate the fact that he quite clearly broke the law and must pay the penalty. The biggest strikes against him are that he volunteered _after_ the Iraq invasion and stated for the record that he is not a Conscientious Objector, which was his only out. The military, I’m sure, is as polarized on the issue as everybody else is. Ask 10 people and get 10 different opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222/8 "2007-02-07T17:23:34Z")
Personally, I don’t. He joined the Army in 2003, when conflict with Iraq was a distinct possibility, and he joined as an officer. He knew what he was getting into. His dad is a prominent politician and antiwar activist, and I think he was joining the military intending to make a big political stink. Seeing how the military expected him to lead others, it wasn’t an honorable thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222/9 "2007-02-07T18:58:44Z")
[QUOTE=Sunrazor] My personal fantasy is that he is found not guilty, thus spurring military officers up and down the ranks to refuse to go, essentially stripping the civilian government of authority over the military [/QUOTE] Yeah… your fantasy is a military that does whatever it wants, regardless of what it’s ordered to do by the elected government? You’re SURE that’s your fantasy? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222/10 "2007-02-07T19:15:34Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Personally, I don’t. He joined the Army in 2003, when conflict with Iraq was a distinct possibility, and he joined as an officer. He knew what he was getting into. His dad is a prominent politician and antiwar activist, and I think he was joining the military intending to make a big political stink. Seeing how the military expected him to lead others, it wasn’t an honorable thing to do. [/QUOTE] I agree completely. I hope he gets the full four years. I doubt he will get any time. If you want some context, today just so happens to be my anniversary. I joined the army 18 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222/11 "2007-02-07T19:17:36Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] The war was approved by Congress. [/QUOTE] No it wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222/12 "2007-02-07T19:23:01Z")
[QUOTE=Loach] If you want some context, today just so happens to be my anniversary. I joined the army 18 years ago. [/QUOTE] You’re a better man than me. I only did five in the Navy. Here’s hoping the next two go well for you. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222/13 "2007-02-07T19:32:58Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] You’re a better man than me. I only did five in the Navy. Here’s hoping the next two go well for you. [/QUOTE] Was there any doubt? 😉 Only the first four were active the rest have been in the guard to include a year long government paid vaction a couple of years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222/14 "2007-02-07T19:47:12Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] No it wasn’t. [/QUOTE] Yes, as a matter of fact it was. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222/15 "2007-02-07T19:55:50Z")
I generally have a lot of respect for conscientious objectors and antiwar activists, even if I disagree with them. However, Lt. Watada’s actions didn’t seem honorable to me, being timed as they were. Besides, as I said, as an officer he had an obligation to lead his soldiers, even if he disagreed with the war. The honorable course of action would have been to go to Iraq, get as many of his soldiers home alive as he could through his leadership, and then oppose the war after his obligation to his soldiers had been satisfied. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222/16 "2007-02-07T20:16:13Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] Yes, as a matter of fact it was. [/QUOTE] Incorrect. Congress did not vote on whether to go to war. They voted to give Bush the authority to do it on his own _if necessary_. I’m not arguing that this would help Watada’s case at all. Calling his deployment an illegal order is still a hard (probably impossible) sell, but I have to correct the assertion that Congress directly approved the invasion of Iraq. It did not. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222/17 "2007-02-07T20:24:12Z")
You’re right, it won’t help Watada’s case. There is case law that shows that. ---
**Author:** ![bytheway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df705f/32.png) [@bytheway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bytheway)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222/18 "2007-02-07T21:20:35Z")
> [@](#): > > His dad is a prominent politician Minor correction: his dad, Bob Watada, was for many years the executive director Campaign Spending Commission (recently retired), which I am pretty sure is not an elected office. However, Bob Watada played a prominent role in the investigation into illegal campaign contributions and was in the media often. For the record, I respect his stance, but I do not think he has a chance to be acquitted. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222/19 "2007-02-07T22:02:10Z")
I saw a banner on a pedestrian overpass when I was driving home yesterday, which said, “Free Watanda.” My first thought was, “Why? [Is Dr. Doom trying to steal its vibranium deposits again?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wakanda)” ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2007, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222/20 "2007-02-08T00:13:43Z")
[QUOTE=astorian] Yeah… your fantasy is a military that does whatever it wants, regardless of what it’s ordered to do by the elected government? You’re SURE that’s your fantasy? [/QUOTE] You snipped too much of my quote … or too little, however you want to look at it. My real fantasy is that the military simply refuses to do what the Commander in Chief orders, rendering him and his VP militarily powerless, forcing them to step down and letting the Speaker of the House assume control and command. Like I said, it’s pure fantasy, but of the “for want of a nail, a shoe was lost” variety. I wouldn’t have posted something like this in Great Debates – maybe I should have gone for Mundane Pointless etc. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-lt-watada-stand-any-chance-of-acquittal/391222.md?page=2)