# Does Madonna (the singer) look more and more like an old whore? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 19, 2011, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431 "2011-11-19T09:07:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/121 "2011-11-21T12:29:06Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > In my line of work, I’ve seen a lot of old whores. Madonna looks nothing like that. She appears to have all her teeth, for one. I have decided I don’t need to know your line of work 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/122 "2011-11-21T13:39:34Z")
I’m not a Madonna fan and I’d certainly call her an attention whore, but the “looks like an old whore” thing is just petty sniping. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/123 "2011-11-21T15:48:55Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I’m not a Madonna fan and I’d certainly call her an attention whore, but the “looks like an old whore” thing is just petty sniping. I agree. I’m no fan of her work, but her accomplishments are her own and she looks fine. > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > her habit of cruising in her limo, finding much younger boys, and inviting them into the limo for sex. I’d find this behavior similarly repellant in a man. And I don’t care if someone is famous or not, I think that this sort of behavior deserves to be called out. The idea of Madonna cruising around picking up guys for casual sex sounds like fiction or fantasy or both. Either way, I don’t see anything “repellant” at all about it for a person of any gender or any level of fame. What part is repellant? Is it the “much younger” part? Does “much younger” mean a child? ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/124 "2011-11-21T18:04:34Z")
**Ascenray** , in a later post, she said > [@](#): > > It might have been in a video, but it was pretty common for her to do this IRL. With underage boys. So yes, “much younger boys” in this context is supposed to mean “a child”, or at least a teenager. I didn’t read _Sex_, but in college someone had a copy, and I did get to glance at some of the pictures. Not that I recall much. This thread OP was a “bash Madonna” post. Call her old, call her a whore, blah blah blah. There’s nothing in that picture that shows anything bad. As for Madonna’s taste in younger men, here is a rundown on some of her relationships. > **[LIZ JONES: Trust me Madonna, dating a toy boy makes you look even older](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2026827/Madonna-dating-toy-boy-Brahim-Zaibat-makes-look-older.html)** > > You have to look at why young men date older women. It is not because we are funnier, more confident, or well read. It's because they get an easy ride. Being into men in their early 20s isn’t quite the same as dragging teenagers into her limo. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/125 "2011-11-21T18:33:57Z")
> [@](#): > > I have decided I don’t need to know your line of work IIRC, **Drain Bead** is a lawyer of some sort. Apparently, in the criminal justice system. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/126 "2011-11-21T18:41:50Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > She’s a woman who has always been openly sexual in her music and videos, and that upsets a lot of people. Women aren’t supposed to like that stuff, or if they do like it they’re supposed to keep it under wraps or else be called all sorts of names. Of course, with Madonna, people have been calling her a whore since the moment she hit the scene, same with most female pop stars. My guess is that she really doesn’t care what any of us think and is laughing all the way to the bank, but I still don’t care for the whore, slut, tramp labels. That they still get thrown around anytime a woman bares a little cleavage is pretty f’n sad. > [@Alice\_The\_Goon](#): > > Also, women are supposed to become invisible after 40, and she never did. So that makes her an “old whore.” Nailed it. I owe Madonna a lot, so it’s hard not to take some of this criticism personally. Madonna has been called a whore since time immemorial, and she’s been misunderstood for just as long. Yes, she’s an attention whore - I’d put money on her having histrionic personality disorder. However, she strongly, passionately believes in the right for oppressed people to experience sexual and personal liberation. That was the point of The Sex Book, which was intended to provoke by playing around with controversial fantasies and ideas. She crossed barriers in women’s sexuality, gay sexuality, interracial/transcultural sexuality and other taboos because she believed it needed to be done. She has repeatedly addressed the disconnect between herself and her critics both in her music and through other forms of media. Madonna is a narcissist with a heart of gold. If you don’t get it by now, you probably never will. > [@PunditLisa](#): > > [http://www.beautifulmadonna.com/madonnasex/040.jpg](http://www.beautifulmadonna.com/madonnasex/040.jpg) > > Well, if this truly is an excerpt of Madonna’s “Sex” book, then it’s pretty damning. How young does someone have to be in order to not have pubic hair yet? _The Sex Book_, which I have seen and read in its entirely, is fiction. She also dresses up like a dominatrix while carrying a tiny dog in her video _Human Nature_ but I don’t think that means she advocates bestiality. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/127 "2011-11-21T19:07:50Z")
I apologize in advance for not reading the whole thread, but **RogerDalien** , you have given me a laugh that I will treasure all day. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/128 "2011-11-21T19:31:09Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > In **Lynn Bodoni** ’s defense, most citable articles on the intenet only date back to 1995 and later; these stories about Madonna and her gal pals cruising in a limo for teenaged Latino boys date back to the late 80s. I recall seeing it in a magazine interview with Debi Mazur from around that period; since I don’t hoard all my magazines from decades ago, that’s about as specific as I can get, cite-wise. > > If you have kept all your back issues of **Playboy, Penthouse, Esquire, Dirt, Details** and **Rolling Stone** from that era, my hat’s off to you. You’ll be able to provide a more specific cite than I. You also might be Michael Richards or Maury Chaykin from [Unstrung Heroes](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114798/), though. The staff of _Hoarders_ will be in touch with you shortly. I mostly heard the rumors in the 80s, as I had a co-worker who was fascinated by Madonna, and she was always bringing gossip rags in to work. I’m talking about magazines like People and Rolling Stone and such. The only online cite I can find is [http://s11.zetaboards.com/antimadonna/topic/901193/1/](http://s11.zetaboards.com/antimadonna/topic/901193/1/) , which is definitely an anti-Madonna website, so I view it as not as reliable as I’d like. My objections to Madonna are not based on her having a lot of sex. I don’t CARE if she has sex with men, women, and the occasional plush toy. I don’t care if someone has an active sex life. I do care if they are picking up underage people and having sex with them, and I also care if they try to re-brand themselves as parental after having an active public sex life. I am having to re-think whether or not Madonna actually picked up underage boys, but that was definitely the rumor that was going around. And anyone who thinks that I would dream of doing anything to harm a kitten hasn’t read any of the kitten threads I’ve participated in. Kittens ARE in danger when they’re around me…it’s quite possible that I will pick them up and coo at them. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/129 "2011-11-21T19:34:55Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > …and I also care if they try to re-brand themselves as parental after having an active public sex life. Is it possible to be a fully realized sexual being and a good parent at the same time, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/130 "2011-11-21T19:35:15Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > and I also care if they try to re-brand themselves as parental after having an active public sex life. I don’t see anything necessarily incongruous, inconsistent, or irreconcilable with being parental and also having (had) an active public sex life. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/131 "2011-11-21T19:43:22Z")
Madonna didn’t just have a very active, public sex life. Her brand was as a sexual object. Being sexual was how she sold herself. “Oh yeah, I’m a total slut and I LOVE it!” was her motto. This is different than being a fully realized sexual person. Parents can be sexual. However, I find it jarring that someone who presented herself as being sexually available to just about anyone would now try to be a parental role model. Ozzie Osbourne did (and does) a lot of drugs, but when he tries to be parental, he admits that he did them, and that they screwed him up. I think that he loves his kids, but he’s not a great parent. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/132 "2011-11-21T19:54:40Z")
Isn’t part of the point of Madonna’s message that – A: > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Madonna didn’t just have a very active, public sex life. Her brand was as a sexual object. Being sexual was how she sold herself. Dos _not_ imply – B: > [@](#): > > … I’m a total slut … > [@](#): > > This is different than being a fully realized sexual person. I’d say it’s a subset of “fully realized sexual persons.” I’m about 10 years younger than Madonna. I don’t really see much difference between Madonna’s sexual persona and that of many of the women I grew up with. Come on, _Sex and the City_, etc.? Isn’t the whole point of Madonna that all this stuff is a perfectly legitimate way for any woman, whether parent or not, to express her sexuality? > [@](#): > > Parents can be sexual. However, I find it jarring that someone who presented herself as being sexually available to just about anyone would now try to be a parental role model. Ozzie Osbourne did (and does) a lot of drugs, but when he tries to be parental, he admits that he did them, and that they screwed him up. I think that he loves his kids, but he’s not a great parent. I must admit, I have less of an idea of what kind of parent Madonna is than I do of what kind of parent Ozzy is, mostly because Ozzy made a TV show about it. Given that, however, I don’t see any equivalence between a lifetime of drug and alcohol abuse and Madonna’s public sexuality. I certainly don’t see how it implies that she’s a bad parent. I see nothing harmful to children or anyone else in Madonna’s public output – her music, videos, nude photographs, books, or anything else. And besides all that, how much do any of us really know about Madonna’s actual sex life? I’d guess very little. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/133 "2011-11-21T19:56:12Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Madonna didn’t just have a very active, public sex life. Her brand was as a sexual object. Being sexual was how she sold herself. “Oh yeah, I’m a total slut and I LOVE it!” was her motto. This is different than being a fully realized sexual person. Back when **Truth or Dare** came out, a newspaper reviewer (Tom Shales? This was a long time ago) made a compelling claim that for her, sex was just a marketing crutch and she’s actually just about money. She didn’t kick the cameraman out of the room when she was changing clothes, dishing about sex with her gal pals, hagging it up with the dancer boys, giggling at her unfortunate assistant’s torn rectum, etc. But when she was talking money with her accountant, the camera had to leave the room. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/134 "2011-11-21T20:16:19Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > Back when **Truth or Dare** came out, a newspaper reviewer (Tom Shales? This was a long time ago) made a compelling claim that for her, sex was just a marketing crutch and she’s actually just about money. She didn’t kick the cameraman out of the room when she was changing clothes, dishing about sex with her gal pals, hagging it up with the dancer boys, giggling at her unfortunate assistant’s torn rectum, etc. But when she was talking money with her accountant, the camera had to leave the room. Would the cameraman have WANTED to stick around while Madonna conferred with her accountant? _Truth or Dare_ basically killed Madonna as a beauty/sex figure for me, btw. After looking at that woman for two hours in various states of undress, I’d had my fill. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/135 "2011-11-21T21:49:39Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > What’s wrong with how Madonna is dressed in the OP’s photo? I think her top is kind of ugly, but it doesn’t strike me as inappropriate or too “young” looking for a 50-something who’s in good shape. It’s mostly black, has sleeves, and while somewhat low-cut seems pretty restrained by pop star standards. I’m not really arguing that there’s anything wrong with it. I’m just pointing out that this is more about her being too old to be sexual, rather than being too virtuous, which is what the madonna/whore dichotomy is about. (And, yes, I get that **Cat Whisperer** ’s post was a joke.) ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/136 "2011-11-21T21:55:21Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > _The Sex Book_, which I have seen and read in its entirely, is fiction. She also dresses up like a dominatrix while carrying a tiny dog in her video _Human Nature_ but I don’t think that means she advocates bestiality. Didn’t know it was fictional, so okay. However, if she DID include a story about bestiality in it, it would still squick me out, even if I knew for a fact it was fictional. Blech. I’d also say that had a male singer come out with a “sex” book, and included stories of screwing girls (or boys, for that matter) too young to have pubic hair, I daresay he’d have gotten publicly roasted. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/137 "2011-11-22T02:18:42Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > Is it possible to be a fully realized sexual being and a good parent at the same time, perhaps? Olives, I’m with you all the way on this. I know a few parents that I think would fit this mold. I, too, admire Madonna for being an artist in the strongest sense of the the word. I don’t always agree with her, but I do not think she does most of what she does just for the attention either. Sure, some of the stuff she does is for shock value, that’s part of her personality. Some of it however, is because she feels something needs to be said and she is in a position to say it - and she’s not afraid to say it. More power to her. I think some of the stuff she does cuts pretty close to the bone for a lot of people and they either want to deny that they have felt or considered acting in the same manner. They are shocked that she would actually say or do what the other person considered but threw away as “unacceptable”. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/138 "2011-11-22T02:53:16Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Plus, I’m pretty sure it’s a fictional account as she describes him as “probably a virgin” yet also says he gave her crabs. We’ve pretty much established it was fictional, but even if it were true, Madonna moved to New York when she was 18 and was a star by the time she was 24. Her having sex with a teenager when she herself was likely a teenager isn’t exactly the end of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/139 "2011-11-22T03:14:19Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > Is it possible to be a fully realized sexual being and a good parent at the same time, perhaps? Of course not, it should be illegal for non-virgins to propagate. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/140 "2011-11-22T03:14:57Z")
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