# Does Madonna (the singer) look more and more like an old whore? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 19, 2011, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431 "2011-11-19T09:07:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/141 "2011-11-22T03:18:27Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > My objections to Madonna are not based on her having a lot of sex. I don’t CARE if she has sex with men, women, and the occasional plush toy. I don’t care if someone has an active sex life. I do care if they are picking up underage people and having sex with them, and I also care if they **try to re-brand themselves as parental** after having an active public sex life. (bolding mine) What do you mean by that bolded phrase? IIRC, Madonna was relatively private wrt her daughter in the early days. Do you mean to suggest that because Madonna was very open about her sexuality in public, she should not have had a child or referred to herself as a parent? How exactly did Madonna “re-brand” herself as parental? It’s not like she wrote a book on parenting skills or did she? Or is that just another bit of gossip like the phrase immediately preceding (having sex with underage people)? ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/142 "2011-11-22T03:28:33Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > However, if she DID include a story about bestiality in it, it would still squick me out, even if I knew for a fact it was fictional. Blech. Heh. Stay away from fiction! There’s books out there with people getting _murdered_, and all sorts of stuff in them! ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/143 "2011-11-22T04:19:56Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > I used to fancy her quite a bit, but I saw a picture of her upper arm and shoulder(along with the rest of her of course) and overdoing it at the gym made the mass of small muscles a rather revolting sight. > > And the teen love songs seem a bit silly now. I, on the other hand, love her muscles… ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/144 "2011-11-22T04:54:35Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I do care if they are picking up underage people and having sex with them, and **I also care if they try to re-brand themselves as parental after having an active public sex life**. Your prudish priggishness is mind-boggling. Would you want all entertainers with active sex lives, adult movie actors, sex workers, pole dancers and anyone else who doesn’t conform to your puritanical standards sterilized so they shouldn’t be parents?. > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > And anyone who thinks that I would dream of doing anything to harm a kitten hasn’t read any of the kitten threads I’ve participated in. Kittens ARE in danger when they’re around me…it’s quite possible that I will pick them up and coo at them. Yeah, that’s what they all say. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/145 "2011-11-22T16:32:01Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > However, if she DID include a story about bestiality in it, it would still squick me out, even if I knew for a fact it was fictional. Blech. No, she didn’t. In part of her video for Human Nature, which is a response to backlash from the _Sex Book_, she’s holding a little chihuahua. She’s obviously just being silly. And in case you missed the message of Human Nature, it’s \* Did I say something wrong? Oops, I didn’t know we couldn’t talk about sex I’m not sorry I’m not your bitch, don’t hang your shit on me\* [QUOTE=Lynn Bodoni] …I also care if they try to re-brand themselves as parental after having an active public sex life. [/QUOTE] Madonna didn’t ‘‘re-brand herself as parental,’’ she became a parent. It was a pretty profound experience for her, especially because she herself lost her mother at a young age. Lourdes’ birth affected her enough that she basically wrote a whole album about it (Ray of Light.) The album discusses how having a child has made her realize how selfish and attention-starved she was in the past, and given her life new meaning, and it also set her on her path to Jewish mysticism, which also deeply affected her view of the world and led to American Life, which is also a pretty dramatic shift from her old stuff. Speaking as someone who knows her albums well, the whole tone definitely changed following the birth of her first child. It made her rethink her entire life and what she wanted it to be about. And when she decided that would be Kabbalah and the plight of children in Africa, people assumed that was just for show too. But none of it was ever ‘‘just for show.’’ She had very specific reasons for doing what she did, always. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/146 "2011-11-22T16:46:09Z")
Damn, Olives, I don’t know if you want to defend her that specifically. You speak as if you know her, instead of really just knowing her Hollywood persona. Anyway, I agree that Lynn makes no sense to imply that a public sexually active woman can’t be a great parent. What the hell is up with that. A woman can have sex with whomever and how many she damn well pleases\* and still raise children who are smart, good hearted people who are strong in character and helpful, contributing citizens. \*as long as the partners are consenting and of age. I would need a damn good cite to believe Madonna is a pedophile. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/147 "2011-11-22T16:55:50Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Damn, Olives, I don’t know if you want to defend her that specifically. You speak as if you know her, instead of really just knowing her Hollywood persona. Well, she’s pretty straightforward about this stuff in her music. I suppose in order for the argument to work you have to take her at her word. Which I do, obviously. I think her music is honest. Anyway, I know haters are gonna hate, but Madonna’s music has helped me through a lot of difficult times. I wanted to at least present an alternative perspective. It’s quite possible for someone to be an attention whore and a serious artist and a good person. In fact I’d describe a lot of performers that way. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/148 "2011-11-22T18:32:59Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Heh. Stay away from fiction! There’s books out there with people getting _murdered_, and all sorts of stuff in them! Larry McMurtry writes fictionalized accounts of the wild west, including in “Sin Killer,” an account of an Indian who slices off his enemy’s eyelids, then makes him sit face-up in the sun for days on end. It squicked me out, even though it was obviously 100% fictional. Similarly, bestiality squicks me out, even fictionally. Ditto for pedophilia. I know, I know, I’m soooo prudish. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/149 "2011-11-22T20:34:45Z")
The complete run of _Spin_ magazine back to May 1985 is available in full on Google Books. I’m pretty sure they will have information about Madonna’s nocturnal pedophile activities if they existed. [Knock yourself out, Lynn.](http://books.google.com/books/serial/ISSN:08863032?rview=1&lr=&sa=N&start=300) _Lucky Star_ era Madonna is [on the cover of the first issue](http://books.google.com/books?id=9ugCQfxwym0C&lpg=PA1&lr&rview=1&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q&f=false) with the tag line “Madonna confesses”. Shouldn’t be too hard. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/150 "2011-11-23T02:47:23Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Similarly, bestiality squicks me out, even fictionally. Ditto for pedophilia. > > I know, I know, I’m soooo prudish. Don’t be ridiculous. You’re equating bestiality and pedophilia with normally sexually-active women which brands you as something quite a bit harsher than “prudish” but since this isn’t the Pit, I won’t go searching for terms. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/151 "2011-11-23T02:58:13Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Ozzie Osbourne did (and does) a lot of drugs Osbourne released an autobiography last year titled _“I Am Ozzy”_ in which he claimed to be sober for some time. What knowledge do you have that made you bother to add “and does” in parenthesis? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/152 "2011-11-23T10:48:00Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > The album discusses how having a child has made her realize **how selfish and attention-starved she was in the past** , and given her life new meaning, and it also set her on her path to Jewish mysticism, which also deeply affected her view of the world and led to American Life, which is also a pretty dramatic shift from her old stuff. Speaking as someone who knows her albums well, the whole tone definitely changed following the birth of her first child. It made her rethink her entire life and what she wanted it to be about. **And when she decided that would be Kabbalah and the plight of children in Africa, people assumed that was just for show too.** But none of it was ever ‘‘just for show.’’ She had very specific reasons for doing what she did, always. Which reminds me of the final straw on the “why I dislike Madonna” camel - her dragging that poor Ethiopian woman around on stage at Live 8 while the woman was frantically trying to pull away. If ever there was a selfish “I want people to take a picture of me with her” moment it was that one. Post-Lourdes too, you’ll note. I like some of her music (old and new) but find the woman insufferable. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/153 "2011-11-23T10:56:27Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Osbourne released an autobiography last year titled _“I Am Ozzy”_ in which he claimed to be sober for some time. What knowledge do you have that made you bother to add “and does” in parenthesis? Well he does take daily medication for his Parkin Syndrome. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/154 "2011-11-23T14:10:03Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > The complete run of _Spin_ magazine back to May 1985 is available in full on Google Books. I’m pretty sure they will have information about Madonna’s nocturnal pedophile activities if they existed. [Knock yourself out, Lynn.](http://books.google.com/books/serial/ISSN:08863032?rview=1&lr=&sa=N&start=300) _Lucky Star_ era Madonna is [on the cover of the first issue](http://books.google.com/books?id=9ugCQfxwym0C&lpg=PA1&lr&rview=1&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q&f=false) with the tag line “Madonna confesses”. Shouldn’t be too hard. I seem to remember those stories from back in the day, although I’m not one for celebrity gossip.\* The guys supposedly involved were of legal age–just younger than Madonna… - However, I find a bit of celebrity gossip less distressing than TMI about somebody’s bathroom problems. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/155 "2011-11-23T16:00:17Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > And when she decided that would be Kabbalah and the plight of children in Africa, people assumed that was just for show too. But none of it was ever ‘‘just for show.’’ She had very specific reasons for doing what she did, always. Her girl’s [school in Africa](http://nymag.com/news/features/madonna-malawi-2011-5/) has [been cancelled](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1369906/Madonna-charitys-bid-build-15m-Malawi-school-fails.html), the [Kabbalah Center in LA](http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/06/entertainment/la-et-kabbalah-investigation-20110506) is being investigated by the IRS for tax evasion in part to its connection to Madonna. So maybe it wasn’t just for show, but more like just for dough. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431/156 "2011-11-23T16:30:56Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > Her girl’s [school in Africa](http://nymag.com/news/features/madonna-malawi-2011-5/) has [been cancelled](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1369906/Madonna-charitys-bid-build-15m-Malawi-school-fails.html), the [Kabbalah Center in LA](http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/06/entertainment/la-et-kabbalah-investigation-20110506) is being investigated by the IRS for tax evasion in part to its connection to Madonna. > > So maybe it wasn’t just for show, but more like just for dough. Or maybe it was Madonna’s good intentions taken advantage of by some other greedy bastard or an unskilled professional associated with her organizations that badly handled the accounting. It’s easy to assume the face of the organization is the responsible party for accusations toward that organization that have not even been litigated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-madonna-the-singer-look-more-and-more-like-an-old-whore/603431.md?page=7)