# Does Magic Exist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2001, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-magic-exist/63650 "2001-04-28T16:59:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2001, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-magic-exist/63650/281 "2001-05-19T00:45:58Z")
> [@](#): > > I cannot make it any more plain that the analogy you took exception to was first raised by Jab. And I cannot make it any more plain that it is not the analogy that I take exception to, rather it is your translation of it which I find to be misleading. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, I agreed with his point. This, in some way, you claim to be me “being deliberately obtuse”? No. In fact, it was not that particular quote which I was referring to. It was this quote (which I am reproducing again, for the sake of the stubborn): > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > So, if someone were to post the GD topic of “Could Gary ever be a demented sexual attacker.” > > If someone were to start such a thread, **it would be entirely inappropriate for people to respond with "You can’t prove that he’s NOT!"** Now, PLEASE tell me you can tell the difference between positive and negative proof. This thread is looking for positive proof. You are continually insisting that there’s no negative proof, which is NOT what this thread is looking for and which is NOT something that anyone has disagreed. What we HAVE contended is that, despite the absence of definite proof the the contrary, we feel that there is a high enough probability - measured by the blatant lack of evidence and the fact that no positive evidence has come to light - to be rest assured that magic does not exist. > [@](#): > > If there’s no definite answer, surely the correct thing to do is keep an open mind to an issue. And if there’s not evidence of magic existing, then we take the notion that it _may_ exist with a big friggin’ grain of salt. And I mean a REALLY BIG grain of salt. Like, BIG-big. VERY EXTREMELY big. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2001, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-magic-exist/63650/282 "2001-05-19T01:34:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SaxFace \* > \*\*[To change your eye color](http://wicca.drak.net/snwflak028/ecc.html) (temporarily, of course) > \*\* Here’s the magical words to magically change your eye color (whilst burning a candle of the desired color) (from the above site): > [@](#): > > “1 2 3 change for me.” > 1 2 3 (old color) to (new color)." > After three times, then repeat this three times: > “By the power of three let it be seen.” To quote[Cecil](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_046.html) (from when he was talking about magic spells): “El retardo supremo, if you want my opinion.” And my eyes STILL haven’t changed color since repeating the magical words about 10 times (I even burned a bright red birthday candle: I want glow-y red werewolf eyes, dammit! Still didn’t work though. Fenris (It don’t make my brown eyes red) ---
**Author:** ![JayAndrewAllen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@JayAndrewAllen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JayAndrewAllen)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2001, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-magic-exist/63650/283 "2001-05-19T05:45:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > > \*\* > And my eyes STILL haven’t changed color since repeating the magical words about 10 times (I even burned a bright red birthday candle: I want glow-y red werewolf eyes, dammit! Still didn’t work though.\*\* Oh Fenris, you unfeeling bastard, you just don’t _believe_. -J- ---
**Author:** ![JayAndrewAllen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@JayAndrewAllen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JayAndrewAllen)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2001, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-magic-exist/63650/284 "2001-05-19T05:57:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gary Kumquat \* > > * * * > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by JayAndrewAllen \* > > (1) You have two options:[ol] > > [li]Give evidence that Gary is a serial rapist. I have not done this.[/li][li]Given evidence that Gary is not a serial rapist. Do we really have to go through the whole Hume/Popper argument again, or do you accept that you cannot prove you are not a demented sexual attacker?[/li][/ol] > > I absolutely agree\*\*. I accept that I cannot prove that I am not a demented sexual attacker. Neither can you for that matter. So, if someone were to post the GD topic of “Could Gary ever be a demented sexual attacker.” it would be impossible to prove that I am not, never have been or never will be one. \*\* Whoah, cowboy. My statement was not, “Could Gary EVER be a demented sexual attacker,” but “Is Gary IN THE PRESENT a demented sexual attacker”? Two different questions: one speaks to current action and character, while the other speaks to the progression of character over time. And you still miss my point. If we’re allowed to say this statement “may” be true _on the basis of zero evidence_ - well, just think of how uncomfortable you’d be eating in a restaurant with everyone staring at you and muttering hatefully under their breath. Probability is not just a word, it’s a state of mind with consequences in our actions. Suspicion without evidence is the definition of paranoia. -J- ---
**Author:** ![JayAndrewAllen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@JayAndrewAllen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JayAndrewAllen)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2001, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-magic-exist/63650/285 "2001-05-19T06:10:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ExTank \* > \*\* > > _If_ it is happening right now, a couple of plausible reasons why no one has come forward might be: > > \ > > \*\* Prosaic reasons, and many more can be invented: (5) Magick **does** work, but the minute a skeptic comes to observe the working, the massive negative psi energy he emits negates it. (6) Magick **does** work, but not when you’re performing it for profit and/or personal promotion. (7) Magick **does** work, but it takes other people trained in Ye Arts Magickal to recognize and appreciate these phenomenon. I didn’t even make these up; magickal folk use these excuses all the time. And that’s what they are, I’m afraid - excuses. Post-hoc rationalization. It’s the same type of guessing, once again, that Popper meant to quelch with the theory of falsifiability: if you can explain away failure by making major non-testable adjustments in your theory, you’re not doing science - you’re fantasizing. And as important as fantasy is to a healthy psyche, it’s not science. I’ll probably beg off this thread from here on in. The thread’s growing large, and we’ve exhausted all arguments on either side. It’s been real though. Magical, even. 😃 -J- ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2001, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-magic-exist/63650/286 "2001-05-19T07:24:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Magick does work, but it takes other people trained in Ye Arts Magickal to recognize and appreciate these phenomenon. “But… he’s not wearing anything!” ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2001, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-magic-exist/63650/287 "2001-05-19T11:43:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JayAndrewAllen \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > > > > \*\* > > And my eyes STILL haven’t changed color since repeating the magical words about 10 times (I even burned a bright red birthday candle: I want glow-y red werewolf eyes, dammit! Still didn’t work though.\*\* > > Oh Fenris, you unfeeling bastard, you just don’t _believe_. > > -J- \*\* Th’ recipe didn’t call for belief. Just called for a candle and magic words. And as a status update, it’s the next morning and I _still_ don’t have glowy-demon-werewolf eyes. I don’t even have Bette Davis eyes. I demand restitution! Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2001, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-magic-exist/63650/288 "2001-05-19T15:47:28Z")
I posted an explanation of a mishap in my desk object offer in the [George Thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1325966#post1325966). Feel free to discuss it there. Tris ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2001, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-magic-exist/63650/289 "2001-05-19T22:30:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by flowbark \* > glee: Do you think non-specialists should forgo assigning probabilities beyond, say, 95%? Absent my knowledge of Fermi’s paradox, I might be inclined to assign a 99% probability to the existence of extra-solar intelligent life in the Milky Way galaxy. And this assignment would be inappropriate. Yes, I agree my exact % is dodgy. But I’m trying to get Gary to retract his ‘equally valid’ statement. I’m sure ‘alien life’ is much nearer 99% than 50%, and that ‘magic’ is much nearer 0.01% than 50%. Do you think the Loch Ness monster steadily making money for the locals is like a pyramid scheme? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tourbot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@tourbot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tourbot)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2001, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-magic-exist/63650/290 "2001-05-21T16:57:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gary Kumquat \* > \*\*Hello glee, sorry for the delay. > > You give magic a 0.000001% probability, on the basis that “we should have found some evidence by now”. You then give alien life a 99% probability, even though Fermi’s paradox uses exactly the same underlying logic that you used to discount the likelihood of magic existing(or more precisely, it says the evidence should have found us by now). > > Do you not view that as contradictory? > \*\* I believe this point was already brought up and addressed in this very thread. Fermi’s paradox assumes life evolves intelligence and intelligence produces cultures capable of space travel. Both of these conditions may be quite rare, but we may reasonably agree that the evidence indicates that space travelling cultures are very rare to nenexistent. The paradox tells us nothing about the possible existence of extraterrestrial life in general, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-magic-exist/63650.md?page=14)