# Does mass incarceration make America more culturally progressive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 17, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mass-incarceration-make-america-more-culturally-progressive/746365 "2016-02-17T19:02:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mass-incarceration-make-america-more-culturally-progressive/746365/21 "2016-02-17T22:38:59Z")
Is this a promo for Hamilton? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2016, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mass-incarceration-make-america-more-culturally-progressive/746365/22 "2016-02-17T23:43:04Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > In [this survey](http://www.pewforum.org/2012/03/22/prison-chaplains-exec/) of prison chaplains, 41% said that religious extremism was “somewhat common” or “very common” among inmates. That’s not something I ever noticed. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mass-incarceration-make-america-more-culturally-progressive/746365/23 "2016-02-18T00:51:26Z")
_ **Decline and Fall** _, Evelyn Waugh’s finest work, goes into the issue of religion in prison quite extensively. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mass-incarceration-make-america-more-culturally-progressive/746365/24 "2016-02-18T00:59:30Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > In [this survey](http://www.pewforum.org/2012/03/22/prison-chaplains-exec/) of prison chaplains, 41% said that religious extremism was “somewhat common” or “very common” among inmates. > > Religious extremism is regressive. How much of that is cause and how much effect, though? For example, it’s no great secret that many prisons are dominated by gangs. If you’re reasonably young, male, and in anything above a country-club prison, you’re likely to want to join a gang purely for self-defense, if for no other reason. Prison administrators don’t like gangs, however, and most make some effort, however ineffectual, to keep the gangs under control. However, religious organizations are officially sanctioned by the administration. So, you give your gang some religious overtones, and suddenly it’s okay. The prison police aren’t dummies, and they do realize e.g. that many Asatru (Germanic neopagan) groups in prisons are thinly-veiled white supremacist gangs, but as a religion they enjoy protections denied to the KKK and its cohorts. Also, the special protections given religions sometimes extends to special privileges for members of those groups. For example, at some prisons the kosher/halal call-outs get different (read, better) food than the regular chow line; you eat better if you start praising Allah. In other prisons, membership in faith-based reentry programs comes with extra privileges. So you have people making conscious choices to publicly proclaim membership in religion (often a religion known for extremism) to get some benefit for themselves, and we wonder why prisons have lots of religious extremists. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mass-incarceration-make-america-more-culturally-progressive/746365/25 "2016-02-18T18:40:05Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > No, I’m thinking about letting a lot more people go free than just those incarcerated on drug possession charges. > > To really cut the prison population, we are going to have to release a lot of people who feel, for example, that violence is proof of manhood. That’s a regressive view. Wait, who the fuck is proposing the release of violent criminals? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mass-incarceration-make-america-more-culturally-progressive/746365/26 "2016-02-18T18:44:10Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > It’s not an important distinction. Replace “mass incarceration” with “high rate of incarceration” and my position remains the same. About a quarter of people in jail are there for drug related charges. About 75% are non-violent offenders. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mass-incarceration-make-america-more-culturally-progressive/746365/27 "2016-02-18T18:48:43Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mass-incarceration-make-america-more-culturally-progressive/746365/28 "2016-02-18T19:10:33Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > It’s not an important distinction. Replace “mass incarceration” with “high rate of incarceration” and my position remains the same. But what is important is that, if we accept your 2 statements in the OP as true, you must prove the incarceration rate is high enough to influence American cultural progress. Currently less than 1% of the American adult population is incarcerated. Is that a high enough rate to impact cultural progress? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2016, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mass-incarceration-make-america-more-culturally-progressive/746365/29 "2016-02-20T01:31:54Z")
So is getting slocked considered progressive or regressive? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mass-incarceration-make-america-more-culturally-progressive/746365.md?page=1)