# Does Michael Moore have the straight dope on bigots? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 16, 2004, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079 "2004-08-16T14:08:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079/21 "2004-08-17T01:30:46Z")
:smack: **catalogued** … and the confusing comma following “agreeing with me” can be removed. ---
**Author:** ![mambozzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@mambozzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mambozzy)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079/22 "2004-08-17T01:45:00Z")
At some point in my teenage years, I began to realize that I was getting pretty racist. I wasn’t doing anything direct or deliberate. It was just a pervasive kind of aversion to non-whites. Thankfully, I realized immorality of such thoughts and feelings and have strived since then to be as colorblind as possible. Today, I am confident that I am not bigoted in any way towards any minority…with the exception of African-Americans. I don’t understand it, myself. When I think about it logically, I have no reason to have any kind of different feelings towards black people at all. However, there is something which still exists in the dark recesses of my sub-conscious that make me just that much more jittery and off-kilter around black people. Just admitting it to myself was quite a struggle. My racism doesn’t take the negative form that I’m told is still prevalent in the south. Quite the opposite, I’m overly nice around black people. I think it’s somewhat akin to being a waiter at a restaurant. I’m nice because I’m supposed to be (or know I should be), without actually establishing a real relationship with the other person. Am I making sense? I didn’t think so. Anyway, all I’m trying to say is that I, a white person who sees equality as extremely important and who attempts his best to look past skin color, have managed to clear myself of all bigotry towards every race…except for blacks. It’s not something I’m proud of. It sure as hell is something I wish I could figure out. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079/23 "2004-08-17T02:09:28Z")
**Mambozzy** , I think people like Michael Moore are not helpful inasmuch that they place ridiculous expectations on white people (expectations that they haven’t usually met themselves). So, when Moore urges his white readers to marry a black woman and ‘have yourselves some babies’ (p. 81), two things stand out. First, what a load of ill-thought out bollocks. Second, he never did that. I’m actually rather fond of Mikey (his final chapter on Democrats had been crying out to be written), but given that there’s so much self-interest in the world, and given that he provides us with little or no basis (moral or religious) for doing good (whatever that means) beyond hiring blacks (easy for him, it increases his fame and reputation, and therefore his bank account), you finish his book scratching your head and wondering whether you too could write a book so quickly, with so many anecdotes and sarcy comments, and sell a zillion copies too. And has he ever travelled outside the States? Is he really so naive as to believe that similar problems (corruption, prejudice, money-grubbing industrialists in league with or identical with politicans) don’t exist in every country in the world? And does he really believe that blacks, and Asians, and women are essentially different? All this while living in a country that produced Hillary Rodham Clinton? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079/24 "2004-08-17T02:13:48Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > So is he right? No. Moore is a fool who can’t tell his butt apart from a burnt biscuit. ---
**Author:** ![mambozzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@mambozzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mambozzy)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079/25 "2004-08-17T02:23:04Z")
On the issue of the war (that which I’m most interested in), I find Moore to be very biased and his conclusions extremely skewed. The reason I enjoy hearing his opinion is because it is exactly the opposite of the position pushed by our country’s media and politicians. His views need to be taken with a grain of salt…just like the nightly news. I wonder if most people see this parallel. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079/26 "2004-08-17T02:44:50Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > So, when Moore urges his white readers to marry a black woman and ‘have yourselves some babies’ (p. 81), two things stand out. First, what a load of ill-thought out bollocks. Second, he never did that. Totally. And in the very next paragraph, he has some dubious advice for black readers, too: > [@](#): > > Make yourself a less likely target for drive-by racial profiling by placing a lifesize, inflatable white doll in the passenger seat (the kind people use so they can drive in carpool-only express lanes). The cops will probably think you’re a chauffeur and leave you alone. Yeah, right! Like driving around with a mannequin isn’t a heat-score! That’d probably get you pulled over even more. Besides, it’s really impractical. A mannequin that’s realistic enough to fool a law enforcement officer is going to be quite expensive, and Moore never explains where his black readers are supposed to find convincing and affordable inflatable white people so that they can avoid the inconvenience of traffic stops due to racial profiling. Besides all this, Irish babies are too stringy and tasteless, and there’s a _surplus_ of beef. :wally \<—First use in three years! ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079/27 "2004-08-17T04:59:06Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > I think he was in deadly earnest when he wrote this. Remember he went on to write that he was ONLY hiring blacks in future and sod the courts if they wanted to prosecute him for such acts of discrimination. I actually felt that this was the strongest chapter of the book. You’re not terribly bright, are you? HE WAS FUCKING KIDDING. He was using grand hyperbole to illustrate a point. The man has used satire throughout his career. If you, and those so cluelessly bitching with you, are so terribly polarized that you can read a chapter like this and take it literally, you are a sad lot indeed. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079/28 "2004-08-17T05:06:52Z")
I don’t think so, **mockers**. And on the basis of his work I’m familiar with (one book and one film), I’d say he majored in sarcasm rather than satire. Hardly Swift, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Creative\_Munster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Creative\_Munster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Creative_Munster)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079/29 "2004-08-17T05:19:11Z")
This is the guy who compared the Iraqis fighting against the Americans to the militiamen who fought during the Revolutionary War. He’s also the guy who said that the terrorists would have never have managed to take over the planes and crash them into the WTC if there had been black passengers aboard. I’m not sure exactly what point he is trying to make with his “sarcasm”. I tend to believe that these statements are his true opinions. I think for every legitimate point Moore has to make, there are many more that are just complete shit. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079/30 "2004-08-17T05:28:18Z")
> [@Creative\_Munster](#): > > He’s also the guy who said that the terrorists would have never have managed to take over the planes and crash them into the WTC if there had been black passengers aboard. I haven’t heard this. Because they wouldn’t have stood idly by, but would have taken on the hijackers? Or because the terrorists wouldn’t have wanted to kill them? ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079/31 "2004-08-17T05:30:50Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > I don’t think so, **mockers**. And on the basis of his work I’m familiar with (one book and one film), I’d say he majored in sarcasm rather than satire. > > Hardly Swift, you know. I concur. You aren’t swift at all. ---
**Author:** ![Creative\_Munster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Creative\_Munster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Creative_Munster)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079/32 "2004-08-17T05:41:23Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > I haven’t heard this. Because they wouldn’t have stood idly by, but would have taken on the hijackers? Or because the terrorists wouldn’t have wanted to kill them? I understood him to mean that black passengers would have gone medieval on the terrorists’ asses. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079/33 "2004-08-17T06:50:55Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Moore has some sort of psychological need to portray himself as being intellectually and morally superior to almost everyone I disagree – from what I’ve read of his interviews and appearances, whenever he denounces Americans and/or white folks as “stupid” and “ignorant,” he invariably includes himself in the target group. I have yet to see Moore give a statement along the lines of “You are all a bunch of idiots who need me to give you the answers.” Moore is not elevating himself over others as much as he’s simply stating unpleasant truths. ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079/34 "2004-08-17T07:16:49Z")
> [@Mockingbird](#): > > You’re not terribly bright, are you? > > HE WAS FUCKING KIDDING. > > He was using grand hyperbole to illustrate a point. The man has used satire throughout his career. > > If you, and those so cluelessly bitching with you, are so terribly polarized that you can read a chapter like this and take it literally, you are a sad lot indeed. Gonna remind you of this in the next Coulter thread. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079/35 "2004-08-17T07:32:39Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > Gonna remind you of this in the next Coulter thread. Your worship of that demented partisan bitch in no way makes her work similar to Moore’s. She has called liberals traitors and has slung so much bile and crap that one would have to be a robot to appreciate her work. Of course, I have no problem believing that you are that kind of person who parrots the party line, no matter how many lies are inherent in it. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079/36 "2004-08-17T07:41:09Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > I disagree – from what I’ve read of his interviews and appearances, whenever he denounces Americans and/or white folks as “stupid” and “ignorant,” he invariably includes himself in the target group. This from the New York Times quoting Moore in an interview with _The Mirror_ in England: “They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet . . . in thrall to conniving, thieving smug [pieces of the human anatomy],” Moore intoned. “We Americans suffer from an enforced ignorance. We don’t know about anything that’s happening outside our country. Our stupidity is embarrassing.” (Note he says “_they_” even though he catches himself and begins to use “we” and “our.” And this about Americans from a speech in Munich: “That’s why we’re smiling all the time,” he told a rapturous throng in Munich. “You can see us coming down the street. You know, `Hey! Hi! How’s it going?’ We’ve got that big [expletive] grin on our face all the time because our brains aren’t loaded down.” See? He does it again. “Us” and “we” all over the place, but do you really think he’s talking about himself? I damn sure don’t! (And as an aside, here he is, in a foreign country, talking about Americans…and _he equates our friendliness with stupidity!_ Yup! That’s right! We’re just stupid, dumb Americans with so little on our minds that we can usually be seen just clomping our way down the street with vacuous smiles on our faces because our stupid American brains just don’t have anything in 'em.) What a pompous fucking asshole! But it’s okay because people are wising up to his ass. He’s probably at the zenith of his career right now because he has unlimited character flaws and this film is bringing him too much attention on a personal level. Neither he nor his character will withstand the light of day. ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079/37 "2004-08-17T07:42:18Z")
[QUOTE=Mockingbird] DAMN KETTLE! You one black mofo. [QUOTE] fixed ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079/38 "2004-08-17T07:43:11Z")
This is getting to be a bit like an interview with Mr Moore. Repeats question: “Are white men bigots with regard to blacks?” ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079/39 "2004-08-17T07:43:23Z")
Except for the coding. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079/40 "2004-08-17T08:26:02Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > But it’s okay because people are wising up to his ass. He’s probably at the zenith of his career right now because he has unlimited character flaws and this film is bringing him too much attention on a personal level. Neither he nor his character will withstand the light of day. You wish. He’s shining a light at things wrong-wingers like you would rather keep hidden. Too bad for you that **Fahrenheit 9/11** is helping to wake people up to what’s going on in this country. He went pretty easy on Bush in F9/11, but it still packs a punch, and you just hate it, don’t you? Well, it’s coming out on **DVD and VHS on OCTOBER 5** , and even more people will be able to judge it for themselves. More millions will be able to buy it in retail stores or online, or rent it at Blockbuster, which WILL carry it, even if Wal-Mart won’t. You wrong-wingers can sling shit at Moore, but the stink sticks to you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michael-moore-have-the-straight-dope-on-bigots/260079.md?page=3)