# Does Michigan's Strange Postal Abbreviation Hinder It? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 8, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328 "2004-06-08T20:33:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@dook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dook)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328/21 "2004-06-09T07:00:24Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > ME for Maine is a little less obvious, but that’s probably because MA was already taken. As well as **M** [sub]a[/sub] **I** [sub]ne[/sub] and **M** [sub]ai[/sub] **N** [sub]e[/sub]. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328/22 "2004-06-09T12:41:58Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > You gotta wonder, when the old abbreviation for MA was Mass., why anybody felt a need to abbreviate Ohio to Oh (four letters for one, four letters for the other). The old abbreviation for Ohio, probably first used when Oklahoma was “Indian Territory”, was just “O.” I don’t think I’ve ever seen “Oh.” – though I have see “Ga.” for Georgia and “Va.” for Virginia, from before those postal codes were brought in. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328/23 "2004-06-09T12:50:47Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I think we’re missing the bigger picture here. Since the postal (ZIP) code also encodes state information, why bother even having a state abbreviation at all? Helps if you need to redirect mail. If someone is one digit off on the zip code, then having the full address written out means that it could still be sorted and delivered. Leave off the state and the job becomes that little bit trickier. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328/24 "2004-06-09T15:13:38Z")
Thinking about this thread again, I’m reminded of the Stephen Wright joke about going to Las Vegas to play roulette. He got into an argument with the casino about what constituted an “odd” number. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328/25 "2004-06-09T18:04:23Z")
According to the “old fashioned” method of abbreviation, many East Coast states (having been around in “old fashioned” times, like the seventeenth and eighteen centuries) already had commonly used two-letter abbreviations. These were usually the first and last letters of the word: Me., Md., Va., Pa., etc. (As another example of the convention of the times think of Dr. and Mr.) So when the post office set about to codify a consistent system of two-letter abbreviations, those states were no-brainers. Many of the states who were brought into the Union, when the convention of abbreviation was different–usually the first syllable, or a reasonable approximation of the pronunciation of the word: Tex., Miss., Minn., etc.–had to be shoehorned into the two-letter format. With states like Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri; Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas; some creativity was required to find a compromise between clarity and uniqueness. This is why the list of two-letter abbreviations was determined and published by the post office, rathen than just publishing a edict that we should all start using two-letter abbreviations of our own devising (device?). As someone who has written more than one firm-specific style manual, I can tell you that consistency, which has its own value and is not–not in all situations, at least–merely the hobgoblin of small minds, is often well served by arbitrarity. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328/26 "2004-06-09T18:46:06Z")
**Moderator’s Note:** Shipping this one over to IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328/27 "2004-06-09T19:12:55Z")
For what it’s worth, prior to the two-letter abbeviations, here are what they were: Alabama – Ala. Colorado – Colo. Hawaii – sometime Haw., but usually not abbreviated. Kansas – Kan. Massachusetts – Mass. Montana – Mont. New Mexico – N. Mex. Or N.M. Oklahoma – Okla. South Dakota – S. Dak. or S.D. Virginia – Va. Alaska – Alas. or not abbreviated Connecticut – Ct. Idaho – Ida. Kentucky – Ky. Michigan – Mich. Nebraska – Neb. New York – N.Y. Oregon – Ore. Tennessee – Tenn. Washington – Wash. Arizona – Ariz. Delaware – Del. Illinois – Ill. Louisiana – La. Minnesota – Minn. Nevada – Nev. North Carolina – N.C. or N. Car. Pennsylvania – Penn. or Penna. or Pa. Texas – Tex. West Virginia – W. Va. Arkansas – Ark. Florida – Fla. Indiana – Ind. Maine – Me. Mississippi – Miss. New Hampshire – N.H. North Dakota – N. Dak. or N.D. Rhode Island – R.I. Utah – not abbreviated, though Ut. could be used. Wisconsin --Wisc. California – Calif. or Cal. Georgia – Ga. Iowa – Not abbreviated. Maryland – Md. Missouri – Mo. New Jersey – N.J. Ohio – Not abbreviated. South Carolina – S.C. or S. Car. Vermont – Vt. Wyoming – Wyo. The USPS generally stuck with these, though with Minnesota and Mississippi, they used the most prominent consonant after the I. As far as why they use them – redundancy (which is not always a bad thing). If the zip code is wrong, having a state abbreviation will give the letter a better chance of getting to its destination. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328/28 "2004-06-09T20:03:55Z")
**Do Strange Airport Codes Hamper Cities?** After all, Postal abbreviations usually makes some sense. But consider this: Detroit (City Airport) = DET Detroit (Wayne County) = DTW Detroit (Windsor) = YQG Grand Rapids = GPZ Saginaw/Bay City = MBS I believe the Republic will survive. ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328/29 "2004-06-09T20:34:31Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Detroit (Windsor) = YQG Don’t all Canadian airport abbreviations start with Y? YOW = Ottawa, YYZ = Toronto, YUL = Montreal. More [here](http://www.world-airport-codes.com/alphabetical/airport-code/y.html). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328/30 "2004-06-10T00:29:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Detroit (Wayne County) = DTW Was DTW named for the county? Or was DTW originally applied to DeTroit/Willow Run out in Ypsilanti prior to the creation of Detroit Metro and did the DTW code move to Detroit Metro along with the major airlines, leaving Willow Run with a new YIP code? ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328/31 "2004-06-10T01:46:35Z")
I don’t understand why it is that if I put on the zip code, then I _still_ need to put on the city and state. That annoys me. At least Michigan’s abbreviation makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328/32 "2004-06-10T02:03:20Z")
This is one of those posts that makes me love the Dope. Someone posts something really whacked out, then folks like **lissener** and \*\*Reality Chuck \*\* come along with some real information. I will just say that I’ve always felt the postal abbreviations should get more attention in schools. So many entry level jobs require their use, and people get so confused. I think growing up in one of the M states gave me an advantage. Perhaps the “insider knowledge” it gives us counteracts any detriment from living in such a confused state. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328/33 "2004-06-10T11:18:58Z")
These things are so much fun in the UK … I used to live in Edinburgh, in postcode area E4. Later, I was in NEwcastle, in NE9. And now I’m in OXfordshire, in OX2. And I’ve lived in BUckinghamshire, in HP5. And I nearly got a job in BErkshire, in RG9. It all makes perfect sense. Oh yes. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328/34 "2004-06-10T11:39:38Z")
I live in Missouri. Before that I lived in Nevada. 20 years ago I learned that many 800# order-takers, such as insurnace companies, banks, catalog companies, etc., have no clue what the correct state abbreviation is for Nevada. 10 years ago I learned the situation hadn’t improved for Missouri’s abbreviation. It still hasn’t today. My solution: When giving my address, after the city comes “Nevada, that’s enn vee”, or “Missouri, that’s emm oh”. Unfortunately, enn vee sounds a lot like enn ee, which is Nebraska. Oh, and **El\_Kabong** , you left MO out of your list of poor oppressed states with non-intutive abbreviations. Can we get extra reparations to salve our wounded psyches’ intense suffering from your grossly insensitive ommision? ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328/35 "2004-06-10T11:41:16Z")
> [@](#): > > **Do Strange Airport Codes Hamper Cities?** > > After all, Postal abbreviations usually makes some sense. But consider this: > > Detroit (City Airport) = DET > Detroit (Wayne County) = DTW > Detroit (Windsor) = YQG > > Grand Rapids = GPZ > > Saginaw/Bay City = MBS > > . **former travel agent checkin in.** All Canadian Cities airport codes start with a **Y**. Grand Rapids is GRR, IIRC, GPZ could stand for Grand Rapids/Zeeland. But I’ve never heard of it. MBS - stands for Midland, Bay City , Saginaw. ORD - For Chicago O’Hare. ORD is for Orchard, the original airport’s name back a long time ago. And, today’s trivia question: (No googling.) \*\*What was the name of JFK airport before JFK was shot? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Marlitharn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@Marlitharn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marlitharn)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328/36 "2004-06-10T11:57:32Z")
You want bizarre? The postal code for Nebraska is NE. But when we want to use our little computer to run a license plate through Nebraska, we have to use NB. Don’t know if the screw-up is in our programming or theirs, or if it was done intentionally for some weird entrail-reading reason, but it’s a pain to get trainees to remember it. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328/37 "2004-06-10T14:50:09Z")
**Marlitharn** that is because Nebraska doesn’t exist. It stands for **N** o **b** ody. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328/38 "2004-06-10T15:21:39Z")
> [@Steve Wright](#): > > These things are so much fun in the UK … > > I used to live in Edinburgh, in postcode area E4. Later, I was in NEwcastle, in NE9. And now I’m in OXfordshire, in OX2. > > And I’ve lived in BUckinghamshire, in HP5. And I nearly got a job in BErkshire, in RG9. > > It all makes perfect sense. Oh yes. Have postal codes changed in the UK, or are you just abbreviating for the sake of clarity? When i lived in England just over ten years ago, there were always two parts to the postcode. For example, my postcode in the Lakes District was CA11 0JJ. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328/39 "2004-06-10T15:25:10Z")
> [@Marlitharn](#): > > You want bizarre? The postal code for Nebraska is NE. But when we want to use our little computer to run a license plate through Nebraska, we have to use NB. That is guaranteed to cause problems if you hire any Canadians, especially ones from **N** ew **B** runswick. So what I want to know is, how come Canada got stuck with icky airport codes starting with Y, when all kinds of other places got airport codes that sort of make sense? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328/40 "2004-06-10T15:31:42Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > So what I want to know is, how come Canada got stuck with icky airport codes starting with Y, when all kinds of other places got airport codes that sort of make sense? I believe that when the three old men who determined all the airport codes were sitting around making their decisions, they couldn’t work out what to do about Canada. Then, one of them said, “Well, ‘y’ would anyone want to go there, anyway?” And the Canadian airport code was born. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-michigans-strange-postal-abbreviation-hinder-it/249328.md?page=3)