# Does Microsoft own my laptop? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 27, 2019, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474 "2019-01-27T08:05:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474/41 "2019-02-03T08:50:39Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > … > You know what’s the **least** disruptive? NO UPDATES! > > “Metered connection” doesn’t work. Add me to the NO UPDATES! camp. Good news is: I’m retired so not in the middle of an important conference when Microsoft decides to vomit all over my computer. But I do play Mafia Games. "Sorry I wasn’t around at EOD to help you avoid Lynching the Town Doctor. Microsoft chose the moment to unleash an hour’s worth of diarrhea. And no, Metered connection does NOT work. Someone mentions this “fix” once a year, and someone posts back. It’s getting like 0.9999999999… = 1. Why does Microsoft even have the metered connection feature if it ends up ignoring it? There’s plenty of evidence that Microsoft is like a huge army of programmers with one battalion not knowing what the other battalions are doing. The most major change I’ve noticed when comparing Windows 10,010 with Windows 9,010 is that many simple things have become much slower. And it takes four extra mouse actions to put the computer to sleep. Before memorizing the new, unlabeled, actions I wonder how many victims opened up other M$oft garbage looking for the Sleep button. PS: If anyone is confused about it, No I never really thought that Microsoft owned my laptop. That was a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474/42 "2019-02-03T17:25:15Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Considering I just started working on the computer at 2AM local time today, and will probably be running some lengthy, CPU-intensive processing in the next few hours, your schedule would be quite inconvenient for me. And that’s why we published the update schedule. If you, for example, knew that you were going to be pulling an all-nighter that particular night, we would remove your computer(s) from that particular schedule. We would work with you to determine another time when it was convenient for you to install the updates. I should have added that we had a skeleton 3rd-shift that always was on a different update schedule than the rest of the user population. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474/43 "2019-02-03T17:37:59Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > And that’s why we published the update schedule. If you, for example, knew that you were going to be pulling an all-nighter that particular night, we would remove your computer(s) from that particular schedule. We would work with you to determine another time when it was convenient for you to install the updates. I never know when I am going to pull an all-nighter. No one controls my schedule but me. It is _never_ convenient (or necessary) for updates to be installed. But that’s just me; YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474/44 "2019-02-03T18:45:57Z")
I think these update arguments are like arguing with anti-vaxxers. Some people just hate changes and updates, and they’ll have lots of somewhat reasonable excuses as to why they won’t update, but no work arounds or solutions are ever good enough. They hate updates, and don’t want them. Sure you never know when you’re going to be working, so there’s no predictable update time. Well, there are plenty of times you’re not using the computer for a few hours. When you leave the computer at the start of one of those periods, click the update and restart button, and let it do it’s thing. Now, I’ll qualify that by saying that I see no problem in delaying updates some time to see if they cause any major problems. And there is a special place in IT hell for companies that don’t bother to update their currently still on sale software to work with new releases of the OS it runs on. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474/45 "2019-02-03T18:56:32Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I never know when I am going to pull an all-nighter. No one controls my schedule but me. It is _never_ convenient (or necessary) for updates to be installed. But that’s just me; YMMV. Them hit the “Update” button when you go to bed. Not. Rocketsurgery. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474/46 "2019-02-03T19:03:40Z")
If I refuse to vaccinate my kids I am endangering the community. Am I endangering the community if I refuse to update my Windows 10? Nobody will ever know because **disabling the Microsoft update is not an option.** OK. I’m sure there’s a way to patch the Microsoft object code, or its maze of registry items, and prevent the updates. One of you gurus might be able to do it in 5 hours. I might be able to do it in 30 hours IF clear instructions on exactly how to do it are posted online somewhere. I would hate every one of those 30 hours, and worry I was making a mistake. My hours are precious to me now. In modern America a consensus is emerging that females must say YES before submitting to a sexual assault. Failure to wait for the YES is rape. Why is Microsoft allowed to rape me without asking for consent? ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474/47 "2019-02-03T20:03:01Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I never know when I am going to pull an all-nighter. No one controls my schedule but me. It is _never_ convenient (or necessary) for updates to be installed. But that’s just me; YMMV. From an IT support perspective, it’s a LOT easier to assist with a computer issue when all things are equal on all computers. Trying to support 5000 workstations with no standards on OS releases or versions of various software is a nightmare. From that perspective, it is an absolute necessity to install OS updates. We always managed to find a time when the maverick end user (like you) was sleeping. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474/48 "2019-02-03T20:44:55Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Am I endangering the community if I refuse to update my Windows 10? Nobody will ever know because **disabling the Microsoft update is not an option.** Just to be clear, unpatched and vulnerable computers \*are \*a danger to the community. Botnets, spam relays, and such affect everybody. It’s bad enough with IoT devices, home routers, and old phones that will never get an update, but adding in PCs that often do have an update for the problem, just makes it that much worse. I explain to my users that running Windows, MacOS, Linux, AmigaOS, or whatever requires agreeing to install updates and upgrade the OS as necessary to cover known security problems. I don’t care if they update to the new MacOS the day it’s released, but they do need to move off their old version before it loses support. They don’t have to update Windows during their big presentation, but during the week following IT saying the update is recommended seems reasonable. This requirement really really bothers some people, and they yell and complain and click postpone for months. Now, since Microsoft has decided that Windows 10 is really an ad delivery system, and each new major update brings different ways of delivering ads, the updates are very annoying. That doesn’t change their necessity, because as long as Microsoft (and Apple) insist on combining security, feature, and advertising all into the same update, it is still required. All of those things are good reasons to stop using Windows (and to a lesser extant MacOS), but if you do use them, then that is the pain you’ve signed up for. Many people are in a situation in which they have to use Windows. Nobody said this was going to be fair. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474/49 "2019-02-03T22:01:02Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > Just to be clear, unpatched and vulnerable computers \*are \*a danger to the community. Botnets, spam relays, and such affect everybody. It’s bad enough with IoT devices, home routers, and old phones that will never get an update, but adding in PCs that often do have an update for the problem, just makes it that much worse. But I don’t want my computer to get autism! ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474/50 "2019-02-03T23:18:42Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > Just to be clear, unpatched and vulnerable computers \*are \*a danger to the community. Botnets, spam relays, and such affect everybody. It’s bad enough with IoT devices, home routers, and old phones that will never get an update, but adding in PCs that often do have an update for the problem, just makes it that much worse. This. If you want to opt out of patching your home computers, that’s your business. But one unpatched computer on a corporate network has the potential to compromise that entire network in an incredibly short amount of time. And that’s why Microsoft releases patches and updates on a regular basis. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2019, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474/51 "2019-02-04T00:18:08Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > In modern America a consensus is emerging that females must say YES before submitting to a sexual assault. Failure to wait for the YES is rape. Why is Microsoft allowed to rape me without asking for consent? > **[South Park - HumancentiPad | South Park Studios US](https://southpark.cc.com/episodes/j6a6zs/south-park-humancentipad-season-15-ep-1)** > > Apple decides to recall the HumancentiPad. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474/52 "2019-02-05T12:49:34Z")
Just had a “Your pc … detected a problem … Must restart.” These only occurred once per year or less under Windows 9,010. Are they going to be a much more prevalent feature under Windows 10,010? No, I don’t think 9,010 and 10,010 are the correct names for these Windows 10 versions. Perhaps I should use the more descriptive names — “_Ridiculously Slow Windows_” and “_Twice as Slow as That!_” — for the two versions respectively. > [@echoreply](#): > > Just to be clear, unpatched and vulnerable computers \*are \*a danger to the community. There are zero other computers connected to mine. AFAIK, all zero of these computers have remained uninfected from mine. I’ll report on two (2) viruses that my own laptop(s) have suffered. One was the dreaded Fujacks virus or whatever it’s called. One or both of the virus defenders I had installed reported the infection, but neither could fix it. IIRC, one of the virus defenders was willing to give me a longer report on the infection if I told it my credit card number. Instead I Googled, learned about Fujacks, and removed the virus myself. The other virus infecting my computer, and which has caused me much grief is **Windows 10 itself.** You won’t need to sell me on Unix/Linux! I was using Unix when MS-Dos was steal a gleam in Bill Gates’ eyes. I’ve owned several computers on which I installed RedHat or Fedora Linux. However last time I tried to install Linux on a laptop my effort didn’t go well: (1) The distribution seemed design to emulate all the worst features of Windows. My two favorite programs — csh and gcc — weren’t even included in the default; indeed ‘csh’ was hard to come by; its use was “deprecated.” This despite the fact that the ‘csh’ executable uses only a tiny fraction of that of a ‘calendar program with Dancing Pigs’, of which the distro had 2. These problems would have been only a minor nuisance for masochistic geeks, however (2) That Linux kernel did not understand my Toshiba CPU well enough to turn down the clock speed when idling. In my climate I keep a fan trained on running computers and they still need all the help they can get. Windows 7 with Cygwin seemed like the simplest way forward for my simple needs. The salesman told me Windows 7 wasn’t available for my new laptop; would I like Windows 10? I am computer-literate enough to know that Windows X is inferior to Windows Y whenever X \> Y, but I didn’t know it would be _this_ bad. Maybe I’ll shop in second-hand stalls for a Windows 7 computer next time. ---
**Author:** ![Khendrask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3e96dc/32.png) [@Khendrask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khendrask)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474/53 "2019-02-05T15:55:28Z")
There is also a huge difference in manageability between the HOME and the PRO versions of Windows 10. Most PC’s, even office ones, are shipped with HOME, unless PRO is requested. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474/54 "2019-02-05T16:26:18Z")
I don’t know if it’s changed, but Linux on a laptop was a pain. Everything was pretty smooth, except that to get wireless running was a nightmare. Open source is great except when it disallows the easiest options. ---
**Author:** ![DCTrekkie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dctrekkie/32/18862_2.png) [@DCTrekkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCTrekkie)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474/55 "2019-02-05T17:39:34Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > There are zero other computers connected to mine. AFAIK, all zero of these computers have remained uninfected from mine. So it’s not connected to the internet? Where’s it getting updates from then? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474/56 "2019-02-05T17:54:40Z")
Getting anything working without a driver will be a pain, but I install Linux on laptops all the time and have not had any problems recently. Though a couple of years ago a particular wireless dongle did not work out of the box; I had to download a driver. Most Linux and BSD have a bootable installer, as does Windows. It takes literally minutes to try it out. Perhaps the Linux that came without a C compiler was Ubuntu, the Microsoft Windows of Linux distributions? Fedora has it by default; FreeBSD ships with clang instead of gcc these days. Agreed that you should be using Windows Pro instead of the Home edition. Windows 10 works fine (as does Linux!) but I do run the “Tron” script to clean it up before using. I still think the complaints about Windows _while continuing to use it_ are funny. If someone doesn’t like it and doesn’t like Linux, good news, OpenVMS for x86-64 processors is coming out. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474/57 "2019-02-05T18:05:47Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Getting anything working without a driver will be a pain, but I install Linux on laptops all the time and have not had any problems recently. Though a couple of years ago a particular wireless dongle did not work out of the box; I had to download a driver. > > Most Linux and BSD have a bootable installer, as does Windows. It takes literally minutes to try it out. Perhaps the Linux that came without a C compiler was Ubuntu, the Microsoft Windows of Linux distributions? Fedora has it by default; FreeBSD ships with clang instead of gcc these days. > > Agreed that you should be using Windows Pro instead of the Home edition. Windows 10 works fine (as does Linux!) but I do run the “Tron” script to clean it up before using. > > I still think the complaints about Windows _while continuing to use it_ are funny. If someone doesn’t like it and doesn’t like Linux, good news, OpenVMS for x86-64 processors is coming out. Isn’t Mint the Windows of Linux? Or do you mean by popularity? Ubuntu’s GUI reminds me of Mac but Kubuntu is more Windows-like. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2019, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474/58 "2019-02-05T22:12:39Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Isn’t Mint the Windows of Linux? Or do you mean by popularity? Ubuntu’s GUI reminds me of Mac but Kubuntu is more Windows-like. I have not tried Mint. I did not mean the GUI, just that Ubuntu is apparently not aimed at power users, hence no C compiler out of the box (which is what annoyed **septimus** ), and that it includes some crap/bloatware like the Amazon store app. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474/59 "2019-02-06T11:44:20Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > I still think the complaints about Windows _while continuing to use it_ are funny. If someone doesn’t like it and doesn’t like Linux, good news, OpenVMS for x86-64 processors is coming out. I don’t see a smiley-face here, so I’m going to assume you’re serious. Apologies if you, like I, often indulge in tongue-in-cheek hyperbole with humorous intent. (Speaking of which, the following, like OP, may be somewhat hyperbolic.) There are some things I don’t like about my Honda. I suppose if I mentioned them, you’d urge me to rush off and trade it in a Toyota, whatever the inconvenience or financial loss of doing the trade-in! :rolleyes: I use the laptop primarily to watch YouTubes and rant at SDMB. If your life is so tranquil that changing the OS on such a laptop would be a priority, congratulations! If my life got _that_ tranquil I think I’d get my blood pressure checked to see if I was still alive. I’ve already memorized the three extra mouse movements now needed to put the laptop to sleep; I mentioned them _out of surprise_. Had I been Commanding General of the Micro$oft software brigades I’d have made “Simple and Fast” the watchword. Instead “Slow and Complicated” appears to be the target. I suppose this somehow improves their revenue. The extra minute spent awaking from sleep will be invisible — I’ll get in the habit of using the minute to make a cup of coffee. With cygwin giving me 99+% of what I want Linux for, figuring out how to do a Linux install and finish with a desktop that doesn’t make me want to puke is NOT a priority. So I’ll probably continue as a “loyal Windows customer” (although the computer store here in Thailand didn’t actually itemize the Windows 10 cost on its invoice — _Don’t Ask Don’t Tell_ is our policy). Despite this “loyalty” I still do find it annoying that they act as though they own my laptop! ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474/60 "2019-02-06T12:48:31Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > You own the laptop. You do not own the copy of Windows that is on it. > > With previous versions of Windows, you still did not own it. Microsoft owned it, and sold you a license to use it. They still owned it. You only licensed it. > > Starting with Windows 10, you no longer license a copy of Windows. Instead, Windows is a service. You pay for the service, and Microsoft provides and controls the service. They control when it upgrades. There’s none of this nonsense of hanging on to an older operating system because it actually ran your programs correctly. Nope, you upgrade when Microsoft upgrades their service. > > Welcome to upgrade hell. If you use anything other than what comes with Windows, you can all but guarantee that one of Microsoft’s upgrades will eventually break it. This. Windows have not enforced licensing since Windows 7. All version of Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 were also eligible for a free update to Windows 10 and were able to use their old product key to activate it as long as there were no major hardware updates. i.e. a new system motherboard. Anyone who buys a new, refurbished, or used computer builds with Windows 10 pre-installed most likely do not own an active license. Windows may prompt you to activate it and there may be some limitations to how you can personalize your set-up but it is fully functional and will update normally. It may prompt you for activations but this can be ignored with no repercussions at the moment. That said, legally you are in violation of the EULA which you agreed to by installing, logging in, running software, possessing a physical or digital copy, etc… without a license. As **engineer\_comp\_geek** said, Microsoft seems content to leave this alone as they could discontinue the service at any time during one of their updates. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-microsoft-own-my-laptop/828474.md?page=4)