# Does military authority overpower police authority **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 13, 2006, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519 "2006-04-13T14:04:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519/1 "2006-04-13T14:04:32Z")
Assume a special forces soldier is off duty and driving around when he gets a message that he has to prepare for a mission. So he starts driving at 100mph down the roads and a cop tries to pull him over without success. When he gets to his base and runs in the cop tries to chase him in but some soldiers stop him (the cop) and physically prevent him from entering the military base. Is any of that illegal or would the soldiers be charged with obstructing justice, traffic violations, assaulting a police officer, etc the same way a civilian would? ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519/2 "2006-04-13T14:48:58Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > Is any of that illegal or would the soldiers be charged with obstructing justice, traffic violations, assaulting a police officer, etc the same way a civilian would? Yup, yes, and youbetcha. When off base, you are still required to obey whatever local, state, and federal laws are in effect. Just because you’re rushing to a unit mobilization doesn’t give you the right to turn yourself and your car into a human cruise missile. Tripler Chairborne Ranger, Very Special Forces ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519/3 "2006-04-13T15:02:51Z")
This would be a matter of state law, actually. Where is your military base? He may or may not have broken the law by speeding, depending on what exemptions are granted under state law for “Emergency Vehicles”. Does one emergency vehicle have to stop for another if both are responding to perceived emergencies? Never seen precedent on that. As far as letting the officer onto the base, I got no clue. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519/4 "2006-04-13T15:06:52Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > Assume a special forces soldier is off duty and driving around when he gets a message that he has to prepare for a mission. So he starts driving at 100mph down the roads and a cop tries to pull him over without success. When he gets to his base and runs in the cop tries to chase him in but some soldiers stop him (the cop) and physically prevent him from entering the military base. Is any of that illegal or would the soldiers be charged with obstructing justice, traffic violations, assaulting a police officer, etc the same way a civilian would? The drive at excessive speeds is certainly illegal. However, it’s only an Infraction. Not pulling over is also illegal. This could rise to a misdemeanor. However, the base Security may very well have the absolute right to stop anyone without the proper clearance from enerting the Base, including the use of force. My Dad worked at a installation which required a Top Secret clearance, and one of the men did exactly that. The Guards closed the Gate in front of the police car, and wouldn’t let them in. When the police were stupid enough to begin to draw their handguns, the guards only had to lift their M-16s to show they weren’t kidding. Apparently the local DA called the JAG, and the JAG supported the actions of the gate security, admitted the soldier was wrong in fleeing, but refused to turn him over without a Federal warrent- whcih they couldn’t get for a freaken traffic stop, of course. The soldier was “counseled” by his CO. IMHO- and IANAL, the guards would be completely in the right at many Military bases. Once you are on their territory, your juristiction stops, and theirs starts. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519/5 "2006-04-13T15:08:29Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > SNIP > When off base, you are still required to obey whatever local, state, and federal laws are in effect. Just because you’re rushing to a unit mobilization doesn’t give you the right to turn yourself and your car into a human cruise missile. > SNIP Of course, the issue of whether or not a guard posted to sentry duty can ask a policeman attempting to enter the base to turn back is no longer “off base”. I suspect the guy working the gate would contact the CO and arrange to have base authorities turn the human cruise missile over to the cops at the gate. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519/6 "2006-04-13T15:24:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Apparently the local DA called the JAG, and the JAG supported the actions of the gate security, admitted the soldier was wrong in fleeing, but refused to turn him over without a Federal warrent- whcih they couldn’t get for a freaken traffic stop, of course. In the ensuing clash of egos, did the local DA order police to sit outside the gate until the soldier exited the base? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519/7 "2006-04-13T15:28:41Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > In the ensuing clash of egos, did the local DA order police to sit outside the gate until the soldier exited the base? Heh. “Yes, Corporal BadIdea, we’ll be flying you directly to Guantanamo bay. We think you’d make a great guard there. Also, never come back to South Carolina. You’ve got an outstanding warrant here.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519/8 "2006-04-13T15:36:06Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > In the ensuing clash of egos, did the local DA order police to sit outside the gate until the soldier exited the base? They sat out there, in shifts, for two days, and then they gave up. Really, when my dad told the story, I thought it was hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519/9 "2006-04-13T15:37:10Z")
**DrDeth** ’s story notwithstanding, your OP describes a very unlikely situation. The soldier could get in a lot of trouble for something like that - if not by the cop at the time, then by his unit later on. And besides, there is no reason for an SF guy to need to haul ass like that unless he was _really_ far from base or something. An SF deployment isn’t quite like a SWAT Callout. There’s a lot of coordination n shit that needs to happen. They need to prep the bird and get all the gear and all that. Plus gather intel, prepare an OP Ord, Brief the Op Ord… etc. So there isn’t really a 100mph emergency. 20 mins isn’t gonna make much of a difference when you’re looking at 18-36 hour response times. SWAT needs more like a 10-15 min response, so they need to haul ass. You’re not going to cut any breaks from the PD just because you’re SF. You can still get tickets and DUIs just like everyone else. . . :smack: :mad: ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519/10 "2006-04-13T15:38:46Z")
> [@Mr. Slant](#): > > He may or may not have broken the law by speeding, depending on what exemptions are granted under state law for “Emergency Vehicles”. > Does one emergency vehicle have to stop for another if both are responding to perceived emergencies? Never seen precedent on that. I would be shocked to find that a state would make a servicemembers vehcile an authorized emergency vehicle. Most state laws that I’m familiar with are very similar, and to be safe, I looked up the statutes for Virginia, which has a lot of military bases: > [@](#): > > C. For the purposes of this section, the term “emergency vehicle” shall mean: > > 1. Any law-enforcement vehicle operated by or under the direction of a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer (i) in the chase or apprehension of violators of the law or persons charged with or suspected of any such violation or (ii) in response to an emergency call; > > 2. Any regional detention center vehicle operated by or under the direction of a correctional officer responding to an emergency call or operating in an emergency situation; > > 3. Any vehicle used to fight fire, including publicly owned state forest warden vehicles, when traveling in response to a fire alarm or emergency call; > > 4. Any ambulance, rescue, or life-saving vehicle designed or used for the principal purpose of supplying resuscitation or emergency relief where human life is endangered; > > 5. Any Department of Emergency Management vehicle or Office of Emergency Medical Services vehicle, when responding to an emergency call or operating in an emergency situation; > > 6. Any Department of Corrections vehicle designated by the Director of the Department of Corrections, when (i) responding to an emergency call at a correctional facility, (ii) participating in a drug-related investigation, (iii) pursuing escapees from a correctional facility, or (iv) responding to a request for assistance from a law-enforcement officer; and > > 7. Any vehicle authorized to be equipped with alternating, blinking, or flashing red or red and white secondary warning lights under the provisions of § 46.2-1029.2. > > D. Any law-enforcement vehicle operated by or under the direction of a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer may disregard speed limits, while having due regard for safety of persons and property, (i) in testing the accuracy of speedometers of such vehicles, (ii) in testing the accuracy of speed measuring devices specified in § 46.2-882, or (iii) in following another vehicle for the purpose of determining its speed In addition: > [@](#): > > B. The exemptions granted to emergency vehicles by subsection A of this section shall apply only when the operator of such vehicle displays a flashing, blinking, or alternating emergency light or lights as provided in §§ 46.2-1022 and 46.2-1023 and sounds a siren, exhaust whistle, or air horn designed to give automatically intermittent signals, as may be reasonably necessary Both from the Code of Virginia [§ 46.2-920](http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-920) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519/11 "2006-04-13T15:45:23Z")
I had a friend back in college who was being groomed to enter law enforcement, as his CO felt a 30-yr-old grunt in Special Forces is reaching the end of warranty period. He mentioned that when they were “seriously considering deploying us” to a location, they’d actually keep him on base for a week prior to deciding “maybe we don’t want to send you to Godforsakenistan after all”. So, yeah, the OP’s scenario seems kinda’ goofy. Even if I _WAS_ exempt from the speeding ticket or a legal obligation to pull over, I’d be inclined to stop and explain as much to the cops so as to avoid subjecting the general public to the risks inherent in being witness to a high-speed chase. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519/12 "2006-04-13T16:08:18Z")
> [@St. Urho](#): > > I would be shocked to find that a state would make a servicemembers vehcile an authorized emergency vehicle. Most state laws that I’m familiar with are very similar, and to be safe, I looked up the statutes for Virginia, which has a lot of military bases: > SNIP I suppose that in the presence of flashing lights and a DOD-owned vehicle, you could argue that an individual tasked with arresting a war criminal under federal authority might meet the definition under C1. Then again, if the OP’s scenario had included a DOD-owned vehicle with flashing lights, even the “semi-concealed on dash or in grill” kind, very few law enforcement officers would be inclined to try issuing a traffic citation to said vehicle operator. ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519/13 "2006-04-13T16:39:55Z")
I had heard somewhere that if a vehicle has government tags and refuses to stop, that the officer cannot hinder the vehicle, that is unless the car is suspected of being stolen of course. I forgotr who I heard it from so it could be bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519/14 "2006-04-13T16:54:36Z")
> [@Mr. Slant](#): > > I suppose that in the presence of flashing lights and a DOD-owned vehicle, you could argue that an individual tasked with arresting a war criminal under federal authority might meet the definition under C1. > Then again, if the OP’s scenario had included a DOD-owned vehicle with flashing lights, even the “semi-concealed on dash or in grill” kind, very few law enforcement officers would be inclined to try issuing a traffic citation to said vehicle operator. I agree. Also, when I worked for the Forest Service, I know more than a few people who got speeding tickets in government vehicles. If you failed to stop for the police you would have been fired as well as prosecuted. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2006, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519/15 "2006-04-13T17:25:37Z")
The civilian police certainly have jurisdiction off the base. They would be completely justified in ticketing and/or arresting the speeding Special Forces guy. If he evades them and makes it onto the base, the situation changes. The civilian police, in general, have no jurisdiction on a military installation, and would have to request that the person be turned over to them for breaking the law in their jurisdiction. In general, this would indeed happen, and the guy would get nailed. In fact, he could even be prosecuted by both the civilian legal system and under the UCMJ. The military police and/or gate guards, in general, are completely justified in denying entry to the civilian police. Depending on the installation, they may be authorized to deny entry up to and including deadly force. It depends on the installation, however. Some military installations, such as housing areas for military members and their dependents, aren’t even fenced off. In such a case, the local military authority may grant the local civilian police the authority to enter and make arrests. Anecdote: back when I was a military dependent, I was driving along when a civilian police car began tailing me. It turns out that my brake lights were out, and the police officer was waiting for me to come to a stop or make a turn so that they could pull me over. After a mile on a straight road in front of the base, I put my turn signal on and drove onto the base. The police car immediately turned on his lights and followed me. The gate guard motioned for me to stop and told me to sit tight. He went back and spoke with the police officer. After a minute or so, he came back and told me that the police said my brake lights were out, and that they wanted to ticket me. The gate guard told them that if they were going to do that, they should have pulled me over off the base, but as it was, they were out of luck, as I was now out of their jurisdiction. He then told me that I’d best get the brake lights fixed before venturing back off the base. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519/16 "2006-04-14T02:16:40Z")
> [@robby](#): > > The civilian police, in general, have no jurisdiction on a military installation, and would have to request that the person be turned over to them for breaking the law in their jurisdiction. Depends on where you are. The civilian police here have jurisdiction on base over the non-military members. Those non-military members are us retirees, the non-military spouses and children of the military members, and civilian workers and their command-sponsored or non-command sponsered family members. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519/17 "2006-04-14T02:17:52Z")
BTW, my posting above refers to the Korean civilian police jurisdiction on the US military bases in Korea. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519/18 "2006-04-14T03:36:51Z")
**Mr. Slant** has it right- the situation itself is a non-starter. No special forces operator or Ranger will get a call requiring him to deploy that quickly. SFOD-Delta might, but they have a team on base at all times, and they are the ones who will deploy at a moment’s notice. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519/19 "2006-04-14T21:37:05Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > BTW, my posting above refers to the Korean civilian police jurisdiction on the US military bases in Korea. Great point. And the other amazing thing about police authority in Korea, is the authority the American MPs exercise OFF POST!! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519/20 "2006-04-14T22:10:17Z")
Just a thought, but doesn’t it depend upon the orders the soldier has been given? If he’s been ordered to return ASAP, despite reminding his superior that this may involve breaking speed limits, then surely the lawbreaking is the responsibility of the superior? Or would this qualify as an ‘Unlawful Order’? Of course, the soldier could simply go to the local police station and request an escort. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-military-authority-overpower-police-authority/352519.md?page=2)