# does Mr. George Fraser look black to you? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 17, 2011, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704 "2011-04-17T05:30:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704/1 "2011-04-17T05:30:51Z")
his photo may be found here [http://www.wp.frasernet.org/](http://www.wp.frasernet.org/) . His organization has the following noble goals in mind: > [@](#): > > Major Objectives > > 1. To help Black people build wealth that can be transferred intergenerationally. > 2. To make Black people the number one employer of Black people in the 21st Century > > Annual Goals: > > 1. Double Your Streams of Income > 2. A 50% Increase in Business Relationships with Black People. > 3. A 25% Annual Decrease in Purchasing From Companies That Do Not Support Us. > 4. Save and/or Invest at least 12% of Your Annual Income > 5. Declare Yourself Polically Independent; Vote the Person, Not the Party. > 6. Save One Child Other Than Your Own; With a Special Emphasis on Black Boys. He has a lot of black faces on the website, including some of his “wealth coaches”. But, thing is, would he himself qualify at least as high yellow? Or is he a white guy who should do a better job playing reverse Michael Jackson, like maybe get some minstrel blackface cosmetics? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704/2 "2011-04-17T05:34:46Z")
“High yellow”? Has that come back into fashion over there? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704/3 "2011-04-17T05:44:26Z")
I’ve never heard of him before but the wording on that page would never entice me to do business with them. (In the sense of it sounding like someone trying to sound really intelligent and knowing). ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704/4 "2011-04-17T05:56:12Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > “High yellow”? Has that come back into fashion over there? 😕 no idea, but that’s what you get when you force high school students to read Tony Morrison. What do you think is the right way of calling people of that skin color? “I can’t believe I am still counted as minority for quota purposes”? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704/5 "2011-04-17T06:00:40Z")
He looks hispanic or partially black, very low percentage [what may have once been considered octaroon] Something in his face structure and hair just screams cuban actually. He looks just like the father of a cuban friend from my last job. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704/6 "2011-04-17T07:05:58Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > no idea, but that’s what you get when you force high school students to read Tony Morrison… Hee! ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704/7 "2011-04-17T15:24:16Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > no idea, but that’s what you get when you force high school students to read Tony Morrison. > > What do you think is the right way of calling people of that skin color? “I can’t believe I am still counted as minority for quota purposes”? Dunno. But I don’t recall hearing anyone saying that since the antebellum days. (Yes, I’m pretty old, ya know.) ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704/8 "2011-04-17T15:37:04Z")
Just looking at that picture, I’d have \*guessed \*him of Central or South American descent. But I know nothing of his background - socially or genetically. Genes for skin color get all muddled up pretty early on in the mixing, and genes for facial features we commonly associate with Black (wide nose, thick lips) aren’t found in all people of African ancestry even if they do have dark brown skin, so sure, if he says he’s Black, I’ll accept it. I mean honestly, if I didn’t know better, I wouldn’t guess [Lena Horne](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lena_Horne)was Black, either. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704/9 "2011-04-17T15:48:32Z")
Trying to determine people’s heritage based on physical appearance is sheer idiocy. Got anything else? ---
**Author:** ![Rasa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rasa/32/3578_2.png) [@Rasa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rasa)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704/10 "2011-04-17T15:54:36Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Trying to determine people’s heritage based on physical appearance is sheer idiocy. > > Got anything else? I was trying to think of a nice way of saying this, but… yeah. Who are we to judge how someone chooses to self-identify? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704/11 "2011-04-17T16:11:04Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Trying to determine people’s heritage based on physical appearance is sheer idiocy. Trying to determine how they’re treated by police, on the other hand… In short, he would never be guilty of driving while black. Maybe driving while Hispanic in any of the regions where that’s a problem. ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704/12 "2011-04-17T17:05:18Z")
> [@Rasa](#): > > I was trying to think of a nice way of saying this, but… yeah. Who are we to judge how someone chooses to self-identify? he is not a **someone**. He is a conman running an affinity fraud targeting American blacks. But he is either too dumb or too wise to bother with using a more black-looking guy as the front for the operation. Either his marks will eat it up, or else he is too clueless to realize otherwise. Then again, that’s all small potatoes. The truly scary part is this “what if his website accurately reflects the thinking style, so to speak, of his intended audience of black businessmen and businessman-wannabes?” Because he does not seem to be aiming at the social workers from da hood here - it’s more like the middle class and upper middle class segments. If the president of Detroit school board is [incapable of writing a coherent email](http://www.thebvx.com/2010/03/12/detroits-school-board-president-illiterate/), that’s just one guy in the worst hellhole of them all. But Mr. Fraser’s writings, if he is as successful at what he is doing as he claims (what with the claimed media appearances and so on) give us a much a broader snapshot of how the “elite” of the black America see the world around them. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704/13 "2011-04-17T17:05:28Z")
He looks like Rhett Butler from Gone With The Wind. ---
**Author:** ![Monstera\_deliciosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monstera_deliciosa/32/109_2.png) [@Monstera\_deliciosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstera_deliciosa)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704/14 "2011-04-17T17:31:34Z")
Looks black enough to me. That is, he looks like a person of at least some African descent. I didn’t read his site, so I don’t know if he’s a con man, but I’ve met a fair number of people over my lifetime that look like him, including some of my relatives and friends of the family, all of whom identified as black. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704/15 "2011-04-17T17:35:37Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > he is not a **someone**. He is a conman running an affinity fraud targeting American blacks. But he is either too dumb or too wise to bother with using a more black-looking guy as the front for the operation. Either his marks will eat it up, or else he is too clueless to realize otherwise. He looks black to me, so I have no idea what you’re babbling on about. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704/16 "2011-04-17T17:40:11Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > he is not a **someone**. He is a conman running an affinity fraud targeting American blacks. You have evidence that he’s defrauding people? You seem to be drawing a lot of conclusions from very limited information. I don’t find much of what he says on that site especially compelling, but to me it looks like little more than a marketing and networking site, not much different from the dozens or hundreds of other services out there designed to capitalize on the endless business and entrepreneurial obsession with self-promotion and making contacts among people who might be able to help your career and your financial success. Here’s a [short piece](http://books.google.com/books?id=OtMDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA35&dq=frasernet&pg=PA35#v=onepage&q=frasernet&f=false) from _Ebony_ magazine a few years ago, which says that Fraser “changed the face of networking in the African-American community in the 1990s with the publication of _Success Runs in Our Race: The Complete Guide to Effective Networking in the Black Community_.” Here’s an [advertisement](http://books.google.com/books?id=lkkvcumYMtcC&lpg=PA81&dq=frasernet&pg=PA81#v=onepage&q=frasernet&f=false) from two years ago for a National Professional Network leadership summit at sea. It’s no different from dozens of other networking and marketing and entrepreneurial and self-help types of conferences, as far as i can tell. A Lexis/Nexis search also found articles like this: > [@](#): > > Atlanta, Ga.–Where but at PowerNetworking 2007 can one get a networking education–a technique that has proven to be one of the most effective ways to build or grow a business. The PowerNetworking Conference is the most comprehensive recourse for connecting, training, developing, promoting and networking for African Americans in the country. > > Myles Munroe, Cindy Trimm, Maulan Karenga, Ron Daniels and Les Brown top a list of 100 impressive speakers, seminar leaders and panelists set to appear at the Sixth Annual PowerNetworking Conference, Black America’s largest networking training event. PowerNetworking 2007 will be held June 27-30, at the Hyatt Regency Hotel in downtown Atlanta, Georgia. George Fraser, CEO & Chairman of FraserNet, Inc. and America’s networking guru, noted by Black Enterprise Magazine, has assembled a list of “Who’s Who” in keynote speakers, workshop presenters and panelists who will train, inspire and empower the more than 2,000 attendees expected to participate in this year’s conference. > > FraserNet, Inc., producers of PowerNetworking, moved the annual conference from Cleveland (Ohio), where it originated in 2002, to Atlanta in 2006. With a reputation of providing a place to “connect” at the kind of networking conference that brings results, this four-day conference is the ideal place for business-to-business and business development. PowerNetworking 2007 comes to Atlanta with an established record of attracting Black and other minority-business owners as well as other professionals. > > _The Birmingham Times_, June 7, 2007 and > [@](#): > > Cleveland networking expert George Fraser, author of “Success Runs in Our Race” and “Race for Success,” is bringing his message of black economic independence to Pittsburgh Saturday as the top attraction of an East Liberty networking reception. > > The event, to be held at the 5818 Rippey Street home of accountant Terri Bell, is scheduled to run from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m., and one of the hosts will be Bev Smith, Pittsburgh-based host of the nationally syndicated radio program “The Bev Smith Show.” > The reception is open to anyone for a $25 fee. > > Fraser, based in the Cleveland area, publishes directories listing thousands of black professionals and entrepreneurs across the country. > > His company, FraserNet Inc., also is the sponsor of a national black networking conference scheduled for June 19-22 in Cleveland. > > _Pittsburgh Post-Gazette_, May 29, 2003 As i suggested above, most of this sounds like the usual nebulous marketing and networking mumbo-jumbo to me. I tend to see the whole industry as a rather content-free environment, designed more to rev people up and make them feel good about themselves than about teaching any really useful skills. But i don’t see anything particularly unusual or offensive about Fraser, and it could well be that he does actually help his target audience with the sort of networking advice that they feel they need in their careers and their lives. > [@code\_grey](#): > > If the president of Detroit school board is [incapable of writing a coherent email](http://www.thebvx.com/2010/03/12/detroits-school-board-president-illiterate/), that’s just one guy in the worst hellhole of them all. But Mr. Fraser’s writings, if he is as successful at what he is doing as he claims (what with the claimed media appearances and so on) give us a much a broader snapshot of how the “elite” of the black America see the world around them. Again, you’re drawing pretty big conclusions from almost no evidence. Here is [an article](http://books.google.com/books?id=mEIEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA6&dq=frasernet&hl=en&ei=MiKrTaSdF8rz0gGvzJz5CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=frasernet&f=false) from _The Crisis_, another black magazine (originally founded by W.E.B. Du Bois and the NAACP), talking about how Fraser was behind an organization designed to help young athletes negotiate the pressures of professional sports and make informed decisions about their futures. I don’t know how successful this organization was or is, and i guess it’s possible that it was just another attempt to reach into the pockets of well-paid athletes in return for providing them a service that they don’t need, but if the aims of the organization as expressed in the article are fulfilled, i think it could be a valuable resource. Anyway, as far as i can tell, about the only thing that distinguishes this from dozens of similar networking and marketing people is that the intended audience is black, and that the guy running it is black. Or, at least, “high yellow.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704/17 "2011-04-17T17:50:37Z")
There are [several youtube videos of him](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFwAfeoDYGs) you could easily have consulted. He sounds black, his facial features are black, he looks like a light skinned black man, he is addressing a black audience about black economic empowerment, at what point is he going to be black enough to you? ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704/18 "2011-04-17T17:55:21Z")
**mhendo** , thanks for bringing up the evidence of Mr. Fraser’s success in his field of endeavor. That just goes to confirm what I wrote in my previous post - that black middle and upper middle class do indeed respond very favorably to the sort of rhetoric that I can see at his site. I mean, who wouldn’t want to build intergenerational wealth, put God first, save black boys and achieve “25% Annual Decrease in Purchasing From Companies That Do Not Support Us”. Way to go, Fraser and his followers. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704/19 "2011-04-17T18:18:27Z")
The OP reminds me of the attitude I find in a lot of lower-middle-class whites here in Middle Georgia; they don’t mind living \*\*with \*\*blacks but they don’t want to live beneath them. Black people who do better financially than these white people often earn the moniker ‘uppity’. “It’s not that I don’t like him, he just thinks a lot of himself.”, they say, w/ that looks that asks my white face to agree. So when a black man has a measure of success and tries to share it, I’m not shocked the OP comes along to denigrate him, his success, the ideas behind it and the potential audience for it. Mr. George Fraser deserves better than this. **code grey** asks, _‘What do you think is the right way of calling people of that skin color?’_ If I were addressing him instead of ridiculing him, I’d start with, “Sir.” ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704/20 "2011-04-17T18:29:44Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > … would he himself qualify at least as high yellow? Or is he a white guy who should do a better job playing reverse Michael Jackson, like maybe get some minstrel blackface cosmetics? > [@code\_grey](#): > > he is not a **someone**. He is a conman running an affinity fraud targeting American blacks. But he is either too dumb or too wise to bother with using a more black-looking guy as the front for the operation. Either his marks will eat it up, or else he is too clueless to realize otherwise. Calling someone a “high yellow” “con man” doesn’t belong in MPSIMS. Not sure where it does belong. Let’s see how it does in the Pit. **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-mr-george-fraser-look-black-to-you/578704.md?page=2)