# Does NASA use whale oil **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 4, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542 "2010-07-04T18:49:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542/1 "2010-07-04T18:49:01Z")
So, I’m sitting here watching America: The Story of Us on the History Channel, and they’re describing how at the very beginning of the Industrial Revolution, whale oil was vitally important to the development of the IR because it extended working hours. Then, the announcer mentioned that NASA still uses whale oil to power the Hubble telescope. I find this a bit hard to believe, you’d think that they’d have figured out how to synthasize it by now. Googling this I find plenty of cites/sites claiming this is true and conversly, not true. What’s the straight dope? ---
**Author:** ![Animastryfe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Animastryfe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Animastryfe)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542/2 "2010-07-04T19:04:42Z")
The Hubble Telescope Wikipedia page does not mention the words “oil” or "whale’, and it seems to be powered by solar power and batteries. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542/3 "2010-07-04T19:10:03Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > So, I’m sitting here watching America: The Story of Us on the History Channel, and they’re describing how at the very beginning of the Industrial Revolution, whale oil was vitally important to the development of the IR because it extended working hours. > > Then, the announcer mentioned that NASA still uses whale oil to power the Hubble telescope. I find this a bit hard to believe, you’d think that they’d have figured out how to synthasize it by now. > > Googling this I find plenty of cites/sites claiming this is true and conversly, not true. What’s the straight dope? “Power?” No way. Too laughably absurd to even contemplate. However, it’s just barely conceivable that there may be a few drops in a bearing somewhere on the Hubble, but I find that to be pretty remote - there are synthetic oils that outperform whale oil in every respect. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542/4 "2010-07-04T19:19:38Z")
“powered” is the wrong word. A more plausible claim would be that it is used as a lubricant. Offhand I can find this both claimed and denied concerning Hubble. Up until the whaling moratorium in the 1980s, it was used as a specialty lubricant, including use in the early space program. The specialty uses probably didn’t amount to much volume, and other things, such as jojoba oil, are mostly used now. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542/5 "2010-07-04T19:25:52Z")
Googling for “whale oil hubble” reveals a bunch of discussions on the net without any conclusive evidence. The myth/factoid seems to trace back to a book by Philip Hoare. As quoted in this [book review](http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/25/entertainment/la-et-book25-2010feb25/2): “Even now, space agencies in Europe and America still use whale oil for roving vehicles on the moon and Mars; and as you read this, the Hubble Space Telescope is wheeling around the earth on spermaceti.” For what it’s worth, I’m a space scientist and I’ve never heard of using whale oil. But it’s possible I’m not old enough to have come across it - I was in high school when Hubble was launched. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542/6 "2010-07-04T19:26:48Z")
Everything I can find references either the History Channel or [this article](http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/troubled-waters-did-we-really-save-the-whale-935193.html) as a source, which features these two sentences: > [@](#): > > Since it doesn’t freeze in sub-zero temperatures, spermaceti was used in Nasa’s space missions – no substitute could be found for this natural lubricant. Even now, the Hubble space telescope and the Voyager space probe are careening into infinity, oiled by whales. No sources were given for that information though. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542/7 "2010-07-04T19:42:12Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > “powered” is the wrong word. A more plausible claim would be that it is used as a lubricant. Offhand I can find this both claimed and denied concerning Hubble. Up until the whaling moratorium in the 1980s, it was used as a specialty lubricant, including use in the early space program. The specialty uses probably didn’t amount to much volume, and other things, such as jojoba oil, are mostly used now. Yep, powered is their word not mine. I assumed it was used as a lubricant. I’m curious, if true how would they legally obtain it? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542/8 "2010-07-04T19:44:43Z")
Presumably, from either those whales taken for Japanese “scientific research”, arctic tribes who are still permitted a limited number of whale kills per year, or possibly dead whales who wash up on the beach who aren’t too decayed. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542/9 "2010-07-04T19:51:42Z")
> [@](#): > > oiled by whales Band Name! ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542/10 "2010-07-04T21:33:52Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Everything I can find references either the History Channel or [this article](http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/troubled-waters-did-we-really-save-the-whale-935193.html) as a source, which features these two sentences: > > No sources were given for that information though. Well, it’s rubbish. While there may be some component of “whale oil” that doesn’t freeze in subzero temperatures, spermaceti – a waxy solid at room temperature – isn’t it. If spermaceti is used as a component of some grease in NASA spacecraft, or the Hubble, it’s probably synthetic spermaceti, also known as cetyl palmitate. It’s cheap, readily available, and doesn’t violate US law. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542/11 "2010-07-04T22:23:58Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > For what it’s worth, I’m a space scientist and I’ve never heard of using whale oil. Odd that this question came up. Similarly, my wife is a space (lunar) scientist and had never heard of it. Past tense. She recently went to a team meeting and at dinner sat next to [Jim Head](http://www.planetary.brown.edu/html_pages/head.htm). In conversation (specifically about Japan’s whaling industry), he mentioned that yes, NASA does use a small amount of whale oil for lubrication in some equipment. Before anyone jumps on me, I have to disclaim: I don’t know one way or the other whether it’s true. For all I know, Dr. Head could be mistaken. Or he could’ve simply been joking. But it did come up in conversation and was notable enough for my wife to remember it and relay it to me after she got home… ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542/12 "2010-07-05T08:43:44Z")
I suspect that somewhere in a warehouse at NASA there is a dusty barrel of “_Space Lubricant No. 9_” dating back to the 60s, with an unknown composition (but possibly including whale oil) but a very specific set of operating parameters. They keep tapping that barrel - eventually they will run out and have to search for a suitable synthetic replacement, but until then, they will just keep using it. Si ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542/13 "2010-07-05T11:35:03Z")
How else are you going to make the whale fit in the spaceship??? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542/14 "2010-07-05T14:08:13Z")
Well, if NASA uses it perhaps that means there was a hidden plot line in “The Voyage Home” and the Federation was also dependent on whale oil. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542/15 "2010-07-05T14:52:28Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > and as you read this, the Hubble Space Telescope is wheeling around the earth on spermaceti." By the grace of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542/16 "2010-07-05T15:46:05Z")
I know 20 years ago when CD issues/reissues were the big thing in music, there was a monthly publication called “ICE” that announced upcoming releases, problems with manufactured ones. In one of them in talking with an engineer responsible for issuing some recordings made in the early 1960s, the engineer was raving about the quality of the tape used to record the group. According to this engineer, the tape was in such great condition because they were manufactured with whale oil to lubricate it. Such tape was outlawed a few years later to save the whales but this engineer said he knew of fellow engineers that preferred to use unused boxes of “whale oil” tape they found around instead of the later synthetic stuff, which tended to dry out and have more audio problems as time went by. I don’t know if it is used in NASA but it could be. There could be a certain amount of whales legally hunted and used. God knows there pages of “Moby Dick” where Melville talks about the uses of whales. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542/17 "2010-07-05T16:03:33Z")
> [@si\_blakely](#): > > I suspect that somewhere in a warehouse at NASA there is a dusty barrel of “_Space Lubricant No. 9_” dating back to the 60s, with an unknown composition (but possibly including whale oil) but a very specific set of operating parameters. They keep tapping that barrel - eventually they will run out and have to search for a suitable synthetic replacement, but until then, they will just keep using it. > > Si I know where there is at least one barrel of legally harvested whale oil in the US. The company I worked at for 30 years rendered whales in the 60’s when it was still legal, long before I started working there. All the while I worked there we still refered to the little dock on the river as the whale dock. We had a bone that looked like a giant wishbone about 20 ft high, I think it was a jaw bone. And in the back of our dusty mezzanine was a barrel of whale oil. It was there the whole time I worked there, up until 2007. I asked why we kept it and was told, ‘because there isn’t any more’, we never tried to sell it. By this time the company was producing organic fertilizers and the last thing they needed was a connection to harvesting whales. The plant is mostly mothballed now and I’ll bet that barrel of whale oil is still there. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542/18 "2010-07-05T16:23:39Z")
A friend of mine who used to be a HST scientist/support scientist, has this to say on the matter (I asked him about it earlier, as someone else asked me about it!) > [@](#): > > Weird! I’d never heard of this, whether it’s a rumor or not. But there are at least two places for oils of some kind: inside the “reaction wheels” and gyroscopes. The reaction wheels are wheels that are used for slewing the telescope around. Rather than using a rocket motor, we have massive wheels with electric motors on them. Turn the wheel one way, and thanks to Newton’s 3rd Law, the spacecraft spins the other way. I don’t know whether these have any kind of oil in them, but I’d imagine they do at some level. > > The gyroscopes definitely do. In fact, we had a MAJOR problem with them until this last Servicing Mission. As I recall, the oil being used to lubricate them was slightly corrosive, and it wound up eating away at some part of the gyroscope. In the end, we were down to just two functioning gyros, out of a total of 6! (One for each axis, plus one back-up for each axis) > > So there are two places you might find whale oil used. Now, as far as what _kind_ of oil… Well, it wouldn’t be put in the HST User’s Manual. Too hardware-specific. It might be in a technical report, which can be searched here: > > [http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?N=0&Ns=HarvestDate|1](http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?N=0&Ns=HarvestDate%7C1) > > I looked for reports on “hubble” (or “HST”) and “gyroscope,” but the one that might talk most specifically about gyroscope design is from 1988 and is only available in paper copies: > > [http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=1045361&id=10&as=false&or=false&qs=No%3D20%26Ntt%3Dhst%257cgyroscope%26Ntk%3Dall%257call%26Ntx%3Dmode%2Bmatchall%257cmode%2Bmatchall%26Ns%3DHarvestDate%257c1%26N%3D0](http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=1045361&id=10&as=false&or=false&qs=No%3D20%26Ntt%3Dhst%257cgyroscope%26Ntk%3Dall%257call%26Ntx%3Dmode%2Bmatchall%257cmode%2Bmatchall%26Ns%3DHarvestDate%257c1%26N%3D0) > > Looking around, the source of the rumor seems to be a book called _Whale_, reviewed in the L.A. Times here: > [http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/25/entertainment/la-et-book25-2010feb25/2](http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/25/entertainment/la-et-book25-2010feb25/2) > > I looked in the book itself (via Amazon) and found only a vague, unsourced statement about the Hubble: > > [The Whale: In Search of the Giants of the Sea: Hoare, Philip: Amazon.com: Books](http://www.amazon.com/Whale-Search-Giants-Sea/dp/0061976210/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273449803&sr=8-1) > > No references, no quote. Seems to be a theater-focused writer, so I’m not sure how reliable a writer he is on history and science. The LA Times is critical of him on some minor points, and I could pick out a factual error in a brief quote they made. (The American buffalo did NOT become extinct!) > > So anyway, it’s entirely possible that Hoare’s claim that sperm whale oil is _so_ good at very low temps that it’s used for spacecraft, and that somewhere there are aging stockpiles of whale oil from a half century ago that the gyroscope builders could tap into. > > But then again, the Hubble isn’t all that low a temperature (direct sunlight half the time!), and you’ve got to have cryogenics in it to keep the IR systems working. > > In fact, the more I think about it, the more skeptical I am, just because the HST isn’t at extreme cold. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542/19 "2010-07-05T16:30:58Z")
They have to something with all those Sperm Whales mysteriously falling out of the sky. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542/20 "2010-07-05T19:48:54Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > They have to something with all those Sperm Whales mysteriously falling out of the sky. But those bowls of petunias have no value whatsoever. 😃 Si [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nasa-use-whale-oil/545542.md?page=2)