# Does (nearly) everything have to be qualified nowadays? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 27, 2005, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nearly-everything-have-to-be-qualified-nowadays/301308 "2005-04-27T02:59:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nearly-everything-have-to-be-qualified-nowadays/301308/121 "2005-04-29T16:09:26Z")
> [@Ponder Stibbons](#): > > Hey! What’s wrong with a little recreational kitten-strangling? Same problem that means Southern Baptists can’t make love standing up. It might lead to _dancing_! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nearly-everything-have-to-be-qualified-nowadays/301308/122 "2005-04-29T17:58:48Z")
> [@Elysian](#): > > Okay, really, last post. Do you see anything, _anything_, ironic about that? Anything at all? Anything? …Beuller? You forgot the first part of that quote, **Elysian** > [@FinnAgain](#): > > And you have the fucking nerve to act like a victim when I ‘get my back up’? Only morons are confused why people get upset when you insult them. > Fuck you. And what the fuck is with this victim schtick? A couple of us object to the tone of some jokes, and now we are claiming we are victims? Does that make those of you objecting to our objections victim also? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nearly-everything-have-to-be-qualified-nowadays/301308/123 "2005-04-29T18:21:28Z")
> [@Elysian](#): > > Okay, really, last post. Do you see anything, _anything_, ironic about that? Anything at all? Anything? …Beuller? No, because I’m insulting you now, but wasn’t before. Get as upset as you want. See? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nearly-everything-have-to-be-qualified-nowadays/301308/124 "2005-04-29T18:28:41Z")
> [@Elysian](#): > > Now that this thread has resorted to name calling, I’m outta here. If you can’t state your point without calling someone an uptight smarmy twitty bitch, then you don’t have a point. Um, no, you uptight smarmy bitch, the point is that you’re being an uptight smarmy bitch. Isn’t it ironic. Dontcha think? > [@Elysian](#): > > I pity _you_, that you don’t have a clear enough grasp of the language and a good enough grasp on your temper to debate a point rationally. Get that victim card out you coward, can’t take responsibility for anything here, can ya? You’ve been calling me a sexist for what, half a dozen posts now? And you’re **surprised** that I finally said something back? You really are a cowardly whiney bitch. Gonna blame everybody else for your actions, gonna start a fight and then blame the other person for swingin’ back. Yet again, cuz you seem to be a moron: If you accuse me of being sexist, even when I explain over and over what the real purpose of my jokes were, and you refuse to listen, then yes, you can go fuck yourself you frustrating bitch. You really are an examplar of the most slimey and cowardly portion of the Offenderati. You insult me, and then act like a freakin’ victim when I insult you right back. Whiney little bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nearly-everything-have-to-be-qualified-nowadays/301308/125 "2005-04-29T18:28:52Z")
> [@Tastes of Chocolate](#): > > And what the fuck is with this victim schtick? A couple of us object to the tone of some jokes, and now we are claiming we are victims? Does that make those of you objecting to our objections victim also? I thought you were claiming to be victims of sexism. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nearly-everything-have-to-be-qualified-nowadays/301308/126 "2005-04-29T18:38:03Z")
> [@Tastes of Chocolate](#): > > And what the fuck is with this victim schtick? You tell me. What, exactly, is it that gives you the courage of your convictions to attack people, but not the courage to stand up and get into a scrap once you’ve thrown the first punch. Are you acting like a weasle, or just a coward? > [@Tastes of Chocolate](#): > > A couple of us object to the tone of some jokes, and now we are claiming we are victims? Naw, you do things like come into a joke thread and be humorless and whiney, and then whine about how people ‘jumped on you with both feet.’ **Elysian** insults people, and then acts like a martyr when they insult her right back. Even going as far as to claim the fact of her being insulted back as some sort of victory in logic. It’s cowardly, it’s slimey, and it’s stupid. What did you think would happen? People would say “Oh, you’re right, we’re bad people, we’re so sorry, we’re not worthy!!!” OR “No offense was meant, you’re being way too serious, stop whining you humorless weirdo.” ? > [@Tastes of Chocolate](#): > > Does that make those of you objecting to our objections victim also? Let’s see… funny tongue in cheek thread, Offenderati descend and suck the humor out of it with a straw then complain that people aren’t being more appreciative of having their thread killed. Hillarity ensues. Naw, I still think y’all were being whiney humorless bitches. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nearly-everything-have-to-be-qualified-nowadays/301308/127 "2005-04-29T18:51:31Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > So, for those of us who don’t see truths in gender stereotypes, jokes about gender are usually either stupid/nonsensical, or mean-spirited. Let’s review, shall we? There **are real and valid and testable** differences in how men and women are socialized to act, and real and valied and testable patterns of behavior which are common to each gender. If you don’t see the truth in them, you’re being wilfully ignorant, and that’s about it. Now, out of those threads, there were very, very few jokes which were stupid, and virtually none which were mean spirited. It’s playful ribbing for Og’s sake. Playyyyyyyful. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > That doesn’t make us “humor-impaired.” Okay, not “humor impaired” How about… “buzz kill” “pinch faced aribiter of good taste” “uptight humorless person looking to take offense at obvious jokes” Etc… > [@jsgoddess](#): > > It means that we don’t share the same frame of reference. You’re telling jokes that are, essentially, in another language, and the humor is based on assumptions that some of us don’t make. Some women and some men do the sort of things that’re being spoofed. If they didn’t, the jokes wouldn’t be funny. If it’s a different frame of refrence, it’s that ours is ‘making fun of foibles that some people have.’ and yours is ‘taking offense on behalf of all woman-kind’. I like ours better. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > There are other jokes that I find funny based on assumptions that _I_ make, so I’m not trying to say that making assumptions is eeeevil. Or maybe making assumptions _is_ evil, but I can’t claim that I’m innocent of doing it myself. Not by a long shot. But that’s the thing, it’s not an assumption. I guarantee you that there were both men and women who saw some of the jokes in both threads and thought “Jeez, I guess I do act that way sometimes.” or “Hey, I’ve known someone who acted that way once.” Fuck, I got one marriage proposal and one request to go over to someone’s house and tell her sweet lies. I think that maybe, just maybe, not everbody who’s a woman was quite as offended. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > Just to touch on another issue in this thread: I would say that all humor that is based on the sex of the butt of the joke is sexist. That doesn’t make it evil. It makes it tiresome to me, but so is Britney Spears. Why is it sexist? If, for example, women are socialized to be more polite than men, and yet women still want to get their point/wishes accross… then doesn’t that look like there might be some conflict between direct men and polite/indirect women? (Not that allllllll men and women are like that). But it’s funny to point out when they are! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nearly-everything-have-to-be-qualified-nowadays/301308/128 "2005-04-29T19:18:06Z")
**FinnAgain** , Life is too short for me to get involved in a shit-flinging fest. If you feel I’ve insulted you and warrant whatever you want to heap on me, I apologize. I was attempting to explain why I rarely find gender-based humor funny. I don’t even understand it most of the time. I don’t get the references that other people find so obvious. Why? Because I have never met anyone in my life who behaves in the ways those jokes assume are understood parts of maleness or femaleness. Most verbal jokes are a take on the assumptions made by the audience. To be funny, they have to feel like they have a kernel of truth. If they don’t feel like they have a kernel of truth, they are nonsensical. Children’s jokes are often nonsensical, for example, because adults aren’t sharing the frame of reference. A joke my niece used to tell: Knock knock. Who’s there? Elephant. Elephant who? Elephant. That’s about as much sense as most gender based jokes make to me. Obviously, you have a different take and that’s fine. Heck, I thought the elephant joke was actually kind of funny the second or third time I heard it, so mileages definitely vary. I’d appreciate if you didn’t say that I’m offended, because I’m not. I’d also appreciate it if you didn’t attack me personally as if I’ve claimed things I haven’t, or as if I’ve said you aren’t allowed to tell whatever type of joke you want. If someone cares why I find such jokes tiresome, I’ve explained. You obviously don’t care, so why engage me? Elephant. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nearly-everything-have-to-be-qualified-nowadays/301308/129 "2005-04-29T19:30:42Z")
Only it wasn’t a discussion, because only one side wanted to discuss. The other side only wanted to bitch about how humorless, stick in the mud, bitchy, whiney… the few were. I don’t understand how this whole topic went from “I don’t agree that your jokes are funny” to “Fuck off”. So I, and a few others, disagreed. Get over it. (I’ve read that line enough in the last couple of days.) I’m supposed to sit down and shut up, or get accused of being bitchy and calling myself a victim? But you’re allowed to stomp your feet, scream and throw temper tantrums, because someone stepped on your joke? Grow up. Do you all throw fits when someone steals you punch line, or doesn’t laugh, IRL? And this isn’t aimed at just one person. There have been plenty of people in these threads that have decided that it’s **THEIR JOKE, DAMN IT, so shut the fuck up.** ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nearly-everything-have-to-be-qualified-nowadays/301308/130 "2005-04-29T20:43:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Only it wasn’t a discussion, because only one side wanted to discuss. The other side only wanted to bitch about how humorless, stick in the mud, bitchy, whiney… the few were. I don’t understand how this whole topic went from “I don’t agree that your jokes are funny” to “Fuck off”. Again, it wasn’t a _discussion_ thread. It was a joke thread. If you didn’t like it, take it to the Pit and have the discussion _about_ the joke thread there, not in the thread itself. That’s why the Pit exists, remember? And if the mods find it sufficiently offensive, as per the rules/FAQ, then they can shut it down. That’s why _they_ exist, remember? That’s _my_ point. That’s also why I started this thread - to move the “discussion” to where it properly belongs: here. Humor about people and their situations is, by its very nature, offensive to the target of the joke because the teller is finding fault (humorous fault, but fault nonetheless) in them. Doesn’t matter if its a lawyer joke, a “three men walk into the bar” joke, or just some good-natured ribbing between friends, it’s still _de facto_ offensive. The niece quoted above thought that there was something funny about elephants, something funny that could be related to another person. However, given enough cognizant ability, I don’t think the _elephant_ would’ve cared to find out that it is the butt of other peoples jokes. 😉 This is largely **FinnAgain’s** and others ( **Duke’s** , et al) point: that you can’t get beyond the offensive side of humor because humor _is_ offensive. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nearly-everything-have-to-be-qualified-nowadays/301308/131 "2005-04-29T21:21:15Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > What, exactly, is it that gives you the courage of your convictions to attack people, but not the courage to stand up and get into a scrap once you’ve thrown the first punch. Gee, I thought I _was_, and that’s what people were objecting to. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nearly-everything-have-to-be-qualified-nowadays/301308/132 "2005-04-29T22:10:09Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Gee, I thought I _was_, and that’s what people were objecting to. My remarks weren’t directed at you **matt** , sorry for any confusion. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > I’d appreciate if you didn’t say that I’m offended, because I’m not. My apologies, you were talking about those who’re humor impaired and arguing that it’s just about frame of refrence. I assumed you meant that you were one of the folks included in that category. By the way, if you just don’t like it I’m not refering to you as humor impaired. See… if you just don’t get the joke, that’s no problem, you at least understood it’s a _joke_. If you don’t find it funny, and can’t puzzle out that humor is inherently destructive in many instances and yet playful at the same time, you’re humor impaired. If you don’t find a joke funny, that’s cool. Totally. If you don’t find it funny, and then feel you need to go on a kvetch fest in a joke thread because you don’t find it funny, not so cool. > [@Tastes of Chocolate](#): > > Only it wasn’t a discussion, because only one side wanted to discuss. You sure do use the word “discussion” in a funny way. Kinda like -“I think you’re being sexist.” -“No, I wasn’t. I was only poking fun at certain generalized trends within a gender, and I love and respect women.” -“You’re being a sexist!” -“No, really, I was just being playful.” -“You’re being a sexist” -“No, honestly, I know there are exceptions to every rule and this is just about annoying habits and breaches in communication which result from…” -“You’re being a sexist!” -“Alright, fuck you too.” -“See, you’re resorting to name calling! I was right all along!” > [@Tastes of Chocolate](#): > > The other side only wanted to bitch about how humorless, stick in the mud, bitchy, whiney… the few were. It was a JOKE thread!!! **Elysian** came and posted such gems of comedy as > [@](#): > > We need to talk. > I haven’t seen you for four days and I have something important to tell you. In a thread which was making people, both men and women, laugh, coming in and posting such a deadly dry laundry list o’ dull in a freakin’ _joke_ thread isn’t humorless? Are y’all using different dictionaries than I am? For the Humor Impaired: A _joke thread_ is a thread in which people post words which have a hopefully funny effect when placed together. This is designed to make people laugh, enjoy themselves, and sometimes even think. Joke threads are often tongue and cheek, and laughter is often a way in which we deal with truth. If your behavior is the subject of a joke, you can get offended or you can laugh at yourself.If you don’t get a joke, feel free to scratch your head, read another thread, or go eat a monkey (yes, a live monkey, just bite into it damnit, time’s a wastin’.) However, if a joke thread isn’t seen as actionable by the mods once you’ve reported it, please just Pit the damn thing, and let the people have their fun in the thread. Ya know, fun? > [@Tastes of Chocolate](#): > > I don’t understand how this whole topic went from “I don’t agree that your jokes are funny” to “Fuck off”. Because there’s **nothing to say** to someone who doesn’t find your jokes funny. “Um… sorry to hear that. Hope you find some jokes you do like.” After enough of being told just how unfunny and/or wrong you are for making jokes that people like and laugh at, the only real response becomes “well fuck off.” ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nearly-everything-have-to-be-qualified-nowadays/301308/133 "2005-05-01T02:51:18Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > If your behavior is the subject of a joke, you can get offended or you can [/color] laugh at yourself. What if it’s your gender, race, or sexual orientation that’s the subject of a joke? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nearly-everything-have-to-be-qualified-nowadays/301308/134 "2005-05-01T03:31:41Z")
Well **matt** , [this is what I said when someone else pointed out that sometimes men use the phrase “I don’t want to talk about it” to mean that they had complex emotions which they couldn’t express.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6095496&postcount=12) [And there was this one, about how heterosexual men are “always” thinkin’ that they can ‘get’ gorgeous women.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6099867&postcount=61) [And of course there was this, poking fun at heterosexual males (and especially myself) and how there’s always a fine line between emotional and physical intimacy, etc, etc, etc…](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6102356&postcount=67) If you require, I can tell some jokes about being raised Jewish too. Pure comedy gold, just change ‘gefilte fish’ to ‘slime fish’ and I’ve got five minutes worth of material 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nearly-everything-have-to-be-qualified-nowadays/301308/135 "2005-05-01T06:49:56Z")
> [@lightingtool](#): > > Look, jackass… Wouldn’t she be a _jane_ass? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nearly-everything-have-to-be-qualified-nowadays/301308/136 "2005-05-11T08:21:23Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > What if it’s your gender, race, or sexual orientation that’s the subject of a joke? Are you defined by your gender, race, or sexual orientation? I’m not, and that’s why I’m not offended if people make fun of me that way. I laugh at “stupid man” jokes even though it would be easy to be offended and pissed off that almost no man I know fits those stereotypes. When people get upset about something that someone else thinks is funny, I tend to think the joke hits too close to home. Most people, if they think, “That’s stupid, we don’t do that,” will shrug the joke off as inexplicable, dumb, shortsighted of the joker and go about their lives because the joke’s “truth” doesn’t apply to them. If you’re not laughing, maybe you actually do fit the stereotype or think that it is a too-apt description of someone you know. Do you think politicians think political cartoons are funny? Probably not, because the humor lies in pointing out their failures and hypocrisy. Everyone else thinks it’s funny as hell. I’d also like to back up all the people who said, “If you know you’re going to be offended, why read the thread?” It’s like going to a place called _Naked Showgirls_ and being offended that there are, indeed, women with no clothing in the establishment. Who woulda seen **that** one coming? As for the truth in miscommunication, I’ve dated quite a bit, I’ve had long-term, serious, loving relationships, and an awful lot of my direct experience with different women of different ages, cultures, and native languages has shown me that there is a kernel of truth in most of the stereotypes. I speak fluent Womanese, I can defuse most arguments before even the woman realizes she’s upset, and yet I still miss things that must be apparent only to someone whose mother tongue comes hardwired along with the ovaries. One of the worst arguments I’ve ever had, with my girlfriend screaming at me and crying hysterically, was over something tiny. Even SHE later said that she was being irrational and that she had little idea why she reacted so badly. My crime was not telling her, “I’m sorry,” when I called her to inform her that I had missed the train–by literally 5 seconds–after running over a kilometer in an attempt to make it on time, and then having to wait an hour until the next one came. Apparently, I was supposed to apologize to her for busting my ass to make it, failing, and having to sit at the station, tired, sweaty, frustrated, hungry (not having eaten anything since noon) and missing my girlfriend. She didn’t get upset with me at the time, she didn’t act upset that evening, it wasn’t until the next evening when doing something completely unrelated that the storm broke. And I was the one who was “in the wrong” until I got her calmed down and rational again. She wasn’t the first woman–who was otherwise decent most of the time–who has done something similar. She probably won’t be the last. She was not an exception, she was fitting the rule. Could a man act irrationally too? Yep. But I would bet my net worth that a man would never start a screaming fight with his girlfriend two days after the fact because she didn’t say something nice about his shirt when he came home, for example. The stereotypes lampooned in both threads obviously do not fit every single individual, but they contain enough truth to be funny to many men and women. People are more than their descriptors, but sometimes it’s useful or amusing to pretend the descriptor is the whole rather than the part. If you don’t get it, then realize that you are a freak, and that you need to fuck off and not subject the rest of us to your mostly-pointless huffy bullshit. Take away stereotypes, gender issues, and other generalizations, and you’re left with puns, things a five-year-old would find snot-bubblingly hilarious, and literary allusions as your only forms of humor. I, for one, would not only find that kind of society horribly boring, but I might decide to start making fun of people who take themselves too seriously in retaliation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-nearly-everything-have-to-be-qualified-nowadays/301308.md?page=6)