# Does not liking rap make you racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 27, 2013, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789 "2013-09-27T10:50:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sahirrnee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sahirrnee/32/13937_2.png) [@Sahirrnee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sahirrnee)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/61 "2013-09-27T15:32:07Z")
So if a black person doesn’t like rap what does that make him? I’m not too fond of rap but if I had to choose between listing to rap (or even ::shudder:: disco) and the sappy crap of say Barry Manilow or the Carpenters, or whoever sings today’s _top 40 pop/ bubblegum_ bring on the rap and disco. Sweet sappy love songs make me want to stab the sweet sappy singers in their sweet sappy little hearts. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/62 "2013-09-27T15:43:20Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > I think announcements of seeing “coded racism” in a simple statement of aesthetics is more telling of the psychic than of the person who simply has a preference. In fact, I think adding, “Anything but rap…” to an online profile would be an excellent filter for eliminating the sorts of people I wouldn’t care to hang out with. If you can get past my aversion to the celebration of misogyny, white hate, drug abuse and street violence then we can probably go hang out and get stewed at a blues bar, laugh along with some zydeco, get beat up in a mosh pit or just kick back and space out to some electric instrumentals. Absolutely, because it’s hard to find a less violent drug-addled set of music than the blues, right? Bwahahahaha! Oh, right, you also mentioned a mosh pit. Definitely if I’m looking for nonviolent feminist music, hardcore punk is the way to go. Bwahahahaha! This is the kind of criticism of rap that really comes across as racist. Virtually every genre of popular sung music in history, with the possible exception of sixteis folk rock (and I’m sure I’m wrong even there), has been infused with tales of violence. It’s hard to find music more violent than country or bluegrass, for example. But often what happens is rap gets singled out for violence. It sure comes across as a confirmation of stereotypes. As for beautiful rap/hip hop that isn’t glorifying violence, I’m not much of a connoisseur of the genre, but I absolutely love [Tennessee](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VCdJyOAQYM), by Arrested Development. If that’s not rap enough, consider [Fishing for Religion](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKyuZgseyQ4) by the same group. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/63 "2013-09-27T15:49:14Z")
Dangit, missed edit window: reading over that, I’m being a bit crazy-harsh on **Sun Jester**. I do think there’s a problem with singling out rap for criticism of its violence and sexism, but that doens’t mean he’s a Klansman or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/64 "2013-09-27T15:51:12Z")
> [@sahirrnee](#): > > So if a black person doesn’t like rap what does that make him? Despite the phrasing in the thread title I think the issue here is more about _broadcasting_ one’s distastes for rap (and almost only rap) than just not liking the stuff. Why do some people - in my experience it’s middle-aged white guys and their children - take pride in broadcasting they like lots of stuff but loathe rap? Do other groups of people do this with other genres? I honestly don’t know, but I’m kind of skeptical because it’s more a projection of culture and values than a statement about music. ---
**Author:** ![huesos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7ab992/32.png) [@huesos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/huesos)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/65 "2013-09-27T15:52:02Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Stop posting in this manner, Huesos. First, dial back/back off the insults and hostility in this thread. Insults only allowed in the forum “The BBQ Pit” on this board. It’s against the rules to do it outside of there. Furthermore, you’re hijacking this topic with these posts. We also have a main rule here that says “Don’t be a jerk”, so please keep that in mind. I’ve also given you a small note [in this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=702750). > Just a note for now, not a warning…but ease off the personal attacks and aggression and hijacks now. …and their original insults to me in the first place- these were just fine? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/66 "2013-09-27T15:56:37Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Despite the phrasing in the thread title I think the issue here is more about _broadcasting_ one’s distastes for rap (and almost only rap) than just not liking the stuff. Why do some people - in my experience it’s middle-aged white guys and their children - take pride in broadcasting they like lots of stuff but loathe rap? Do other groups of people do this with other genres? I honestly don’t know, but I’m kind of skeptical because it’s more a projection of culture and values than a statement about music. I think that’s exactly it. This kind of thing irks me and comes across as racist to me, even though there’s very little rap taht I care for. Of course, there’s also very little punk or heavy metal or anthem rock or light jazz or experimental jazz or R&B or grunge that I care for, either; I tend toward the provincial in my music tastes (got some geeky music like They Might Be Giants? Got some ambient like Enigma? Got some goth like Siouxsie and the Banshees? If not, I’m probably not interested). When I see a genre I don’t much care for, I tend to think of it as a personal failing, not a sign of my enlightenment over others that do like that music. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/67 "2013-09-27T16:02:06Z")
> [@huesos](#): > > …and their original insults to me in the first place- these were just fine? :rolleyes: We can’t see the colour of your skin, but you’ve made it very clear that it’s far too thin. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/68 "2013-09-27T16:08:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Dangit, missed edit window: reading over that, I’m being a bit crazy-harsh on **Sun Jester**. I do think there’s a problem with singling out rap for criticism of its violence and sexism, but that doens’t mean he’s a Klansman or anything. As I was reading it I was getting all :rolleyes: because I’m sure, if I cared to sift through it all, I could find some pretty vicious lyrics by\* Air Supply\* (I dunno, maybe “Makin love out of nothing at all” is about daterape?). There’s _always_ an example of something. But just like with interactions you have with people, a music genre will only ever be, to you, what you’ve heard of it. If a normally sweet person is only a dick 3 days out of the year, and you only see them on those 3 days, in your mind that person is a dick. And now I have to recant a bit. I do have a special place in my heart for Insane Clown Posse. I’m not about to go full-blown Juggalo or anything, but I like their overall message because I take them to be a bit hyperbolic. Do they get to count as rap? Or are they a parody of it? **Marley23** , does it have to be anything more sinister than the perspective of a middle-aged white guy is just about as alien as you can get to a guy proudly proclaiming the absence of his love for dem hos? ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/69 "2013-09-27T16:14:11Z")
> [@Dervorin](#): > > Now, I don’t like rap. I am well aware this makes me un-cool, but I had no idea it made me a racist. I honestly don’t like the sound of it at all. If it helps, I’m a big fan of Argentinian pan-flute music, but had to Google a “zydeco” to find out what it was. Is expressing a dislike for rap really coded racism, and would you actually see it that way, or is this person merely delusional? The thing is, you can “rap” to most types of music-- in itself, _rapping_ it’s not a form of music. Rap is typically _associated_ with Hip Hop, but it’s only one of its four elements. So for most people, when they say they dislike Rap music, they’re usually talking about the type of pop culture material they hear on the radio. That’s certainly fine, as disliking something because you’ve listened and don’t have a taste for it, is different than disliking it strictly based on ignorance or prejudice. Now of course, it’s also naive to assume that when people say they dislike rap music, that by extension, it isn’t a potential guise for rejecting what they think is the greater urban culture and people and lifestyles typically characterized behind it, in or outside of the public eye/perception. Throughout much history, there has been a ton of bigotry behind music, this being no exception. Music has been as strong an influence on people, as the media. For that very reason, we have to really understand what we’re aiming at, when we speak about it. > [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > Ok, blurred lines and all, I can groove to that. Got rap acts that eschew & discourage violence & disrespect in general? Who am I not thinking of? I really am curious about this because I have heard a reasonable sampling of self-described rap acts and I’ve yet to come across it. I promise I won’t go all “no true Scottsman” on you–I’m not looking for a fight, I _want_ to be wrong. The short answer to your question is yes. As a music lover in general, I could provide you with a host of songs and artist who do just that. I don’t know how serious you are, but if so, feel free PM me and I can get more detailed. Otherwise, I think it’s short-sighted to judge someone, just based on their musical preferences. For example, many people don’t actively listen to most songs for the lyrics, they tend to just focus on beats or production, hooks, and samples. More adept listeners will hear other elements, and that’s the beauty of music, overall. Again, feel free to PM me, if you’re serious.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dervorin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Dervorin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dervorin)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/70 "2013-09-27T16:15:20Z")
Ye gods, this thread ran away while I was debugging SQL statements. Note to self: do not start threads on busy days. > [@Jophiel](#): > > While I’m sure you COULD use “except rap” as coded racism, in reality I think it’s reading too much into it. When people say they like “all music”, they’re generally talking about the major popular genres. I wouldn’t expect someone who says “I like all music” to own a collection of pan flute music or 8-bit arcade game themes or plastic recorder versions of “Hot Cross Buns”. They’re just saying that whatever’s on the radio, they’re usually okay with it. Well, there’s the thing. I agree with you that it’s reading too much into it, but apparently some people don’t think this is the case. I’d never consider musical, culinary or other cultural preferences as coded racism. The idea is entirely daft, imho. > [@Sarahfeena](#): > > I don’t think not liking rap makes you a racist, but dismissing it as an art form might. Why would that be true? Would dismissing, say, the Impressionists as art make me racist? I’m not sure I see the difference. It might make me small minded, or even culturally lacking, but why racist? > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > No poll option for “Oh, come _on_! :rolleyes:” ? > > I’d be willing to bet that there are lots of older black (and white) people who don’t like rap but love soul, R&B, blues, gospel, jazz… Not liking rap isn’t a race thing; if anything, it’s an age thing, a generation thing. You can join the one person (at last count) who voted for R2D2 and we’ll register that as your protest vote. 😉 I’m not even sure that it’s purely an age/generational thing. Why can’t it just be a matter of purely arbitrary taste? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/71 "2013-09-27T16:16:53Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > As I was reading it I was getting all :rolleyes: because I’m sure, if I cared to sift through it all, I could find some pretty vicious lyrics by\* Air Supply\* (I dunno, maybe “Makin love out of nothing at all” is about daterape?). I’m not talking about abstract stretches like that, though. I’m talking about: Country music: “I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die.” (I love Cash and this song, but don’t ever tell me country music isn’t violent–or, listen to somethin glike “Let you say Goodbye” by Willie Nelson and tell me it’s not misogynist). Classic Rock: “Every Breath You Take” is about as creepy and misogynist as any rap you want to mention. Blues: [I’m Ready](http://www.bluesforpeace.com/lyrics/ready-for-you.htm), by Muddy Waters (admittedly I Googled for this b/c I don’t know much in the way of blues lyrics). Bluegrass: The whole [murder ballad](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_ballad) subgenre. It shouldn’t be surprising: sex and violence are two of the most universal themes in human storytelling. Of course they show up in all genres of music. The problem isn’t pointing out violence and sex in rap. The problem is when people act like it’s a problem peculiar to rap. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/72 "2013-09-27T16:17:56Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > There’s _always_ an example of something. But just like with interactions you have with people, a music genre will only ever be, to you, what you’ve heard of it. So why not admit your experience is limited (mine sure is) and speak from that point of view instead of generalizing from very limited experience? > [@](#): > > **Marley23** , does it have to be anything more sinister than the perspective of a middle-aged white guy is just about as alien as you can get to a guy proudly proclaiming the absence of his love for dem hos? You’re really not doing yourself any favors here. And not all rappers come from the same perspective. And there are plenty of styles that are equally alien to a middle-aged white guy - although by now it should be pointed out that hip hop has been going for 30 or 35 years and it stands to reason that middle aged white guys are listening to it now. ---
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/73 "2013-09-27T16:27:34Z")
Does not liking a black hole make you racist? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/74 "2013-09-27T16:30:33Z")
> [@mandala](#): > > Does not liking a black hole make you racist? The real question is whether asking a dumbass question like that reveals that you’re racist. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/75 "2013-09-27T16:46:00Z")
> [@huesos](#): > > …and their original insults to me in the first place- these were just fine? :rolleyes: If you feel you were insulted, report the post it happened in and mods will decide if they feel it needs a note, warning, or nothing at all. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/76 "2013-09-27T17:01:30Z")
Man, it sure seems like the list of achievements for the Non-Racist merit badge is getting longer and longer. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/77 "2013-09-27T17:13:10Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Man, it sure seems like the list of achievements for the Non-Racist merit badge is getting longer and longer. …and yet every infant is born with the badge. Funny how that works. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/78 "2013-09-27T17:19:05Z")
Tell me more about how I’m going to like rap when _I_ grow up, Daddy! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/79 "2013-09-27T17:19:37Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Blues: [I’m Ready](http://www.bluesforpeace.com/lyrics/ready-for-you.htm), by Muddy Waters (admittedly I Googled for this b/c I don’t know much in the way of blues lyrics). “Me and the Devil Blues” by Robert Johnson. (“I’m gonna beat my woman til I get satisfied.”) There’s a whole micro-genre called gun blues (“I’ll get my 22-20 I’ll cut that woman half in two” or “I’m gonna buy me a pistol long as I am tall/Shoot Crow Jane just to see her fall” -Skip James) and there are lots and lots of songs where a guy says his woman did him wrong and he’s going to kill her or himself. Jimi Hendrix had a hit with “Hey Joe,” which isn’t an old blues song but it’s an imitation of one. My favorite fucked-up old blues song is called “Johnson Machine Gun.” It sounds like the narrator’s girl left him for his best friend, so he’s going on a shooting spree and (I think) break his lover out of jail. My favorite couplet is “I’m gonna be a walking cyclone/From Saginaw to the [Highway] 94.” I think Ice-T would’ve been proud if he’d come up with that one. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/80 "2013-09-27T17:44:42Z")
I believe that rapping well takes a lot of skill. Therefore most rap sucks. Rock takes less skill, so most rock songs pass the comparatively lower “not sucking” bar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789.md?page=5)