# Does not liking rap make you racist? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 27, 2013, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789 "2013-09-27T10:50:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/121 "2013-09-28T23:13:43Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Or is it possible that a person can just like what they like just because that’s the kind of stuff they like? Yes. With Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Fletcher Henderson, Cozy Cole, Cab Calloway, Ella Fitzgeralf, Ethel Waters, Jimmie Lunceford, Errol Garner, Lil Hardin, Kid Ory, King Oliver, Louis Armstrong, Oscar Peterson, Sidney Bechet and more black musicians gracing my computer files, LP collection and a few 45s and 78s, it’s safe to assume that for this white male not liking rap does not a racist make. ---
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/122 "2013-09-28T23:29:01Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > I think it’s more of a class issue than a “race” issue. I think rap does have a weird social purpose where it gives sheltered middle class folks a glimpse into the culture of other groups with a lot of burdens on them (which is never entirely a bad thing) and middle class kids like to use rap to learn about the facts of life, “the reality of the streets” etc. Country has some of that going on as well. > > I’m not really sure why middle class people would want to continue listening to rap/country in their adult life, but to each their own… Why do adults love The Godfather? Or The Departed? Or The Wire? Enjoying fictional tales featuring conflicted anti-heroic protagonists isn’t a particularly childish pursuit. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/123 "2013-09-28T23:43:38Z")
Count me among those who think that if most people listen to enough of any genre they find a subpart of it they like. I think there’s rap for everyone. If Raekwon isn’t your cup of tea, try Brother Ali. If Nas doesn’t do it for you, consider The Roots. Or OutKast! Or Blackalicious. Or Lupe Fiasco. On and on. Not your favorite genre? More power to you. Don’t like any of it? I doubt it. In my experience, a lot of people who don’t listen to rap (or country) do so for reasons that have little to do with the music and more often have to do with other associations they have with the genre, a narrow view of what kind of music they’ll find in the genre, or a desire to say something about themselves with their musical preferences. Sometimes that stuff is connected to race, sometimes it is but only a little, and sometimes it has nothing to do with race. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/124 "2013-09-29T02:46:52Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > We used to have a game thread here called “Gangster Rap or Folk?” where people would post synopses of songs, and the players would try to guess if it was a gangster rap or a traditional folk song. Very very hard to tell the difference if you didn’t recognize the particular song from the description. Do you have a link? That sounds really interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/125 "2013-09-29T04:11:00Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I hate rap except for Eminem and Vanilla Ice. Is that wrong? I liked the Chrysler commercial by Eminem. Not sure that qualifies. Rap can mean anything. From M C Hammer to what-in-og is that thumping pile of noise coming out of the trunk of an 85 Impala with 24’s. I’d have to go with Opera as something I universally dislike. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/126 "2013-09-29T14:16:00Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Me, I like all music except, I’m ashamed to admit, Tuvan throat singing. That shit’s just awful. I just googled that. _ **Big** _ Mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/127 "2013-09-29T19:09:54Z")
[For the edification of the rest of you](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTCJ5hedcVA&feature=related), I present people freezing their balls off, and not catching fish. While singing in an extremely annoying manner. What, do they eat each other?? They sure as shit ain’t catching fish. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/128 "2013-09-29T19:16:12Z")
Two seals. And one guy pissing. I’ve overdone myself. It’s really time to hang it up, when you become a parody of yorself. Inshallah. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/129 "2013-09-30T02:32:13Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Me, I like all music except, I’m ashamed to admit, Tuvan throat singing. That shit’s just awful. > [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > I just googled that. _ **Big** _ Mistake. There is, however, a great 1999 documentary about it: [Genghis Blues](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Blues). ---
**Author:** ![Obnoxious\_Hood\_Ornament](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3be4f8/32.png) [@Obnoxious\_Hood\_Ornament](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Obnoxious_Hood_Ornament)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/130 "2013-09-30T16:45:39Z")
My take on things is as such: Not liking certain categories of pop culture isn’t a crime. If you do it on occasion, you’re _[discerning.](http://dieselsweeties.com/archive.php?s=108)_ If you do if often, you might be a hipster. ---
**Author:** ![Sahirrnee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sahirrnee/32/13937_2.png) [@Sahirrnee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sahirrnee)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/131 "2013-09-30T17:12:03Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > [For the edification of the rest of you](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTCJ5hedcVA&feature=related), I present people freezing their balls off, and not catching fish. While singing in an extremely annoying manner. What, do they eat each other?? They sure as shit ain’t catching fish. > > You’re welcome. I kind of liked it. I’ve heard worse ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/132 "2013-09-30T17:44:27Z")
> [@huesos](#): > > : > : > Are you that obtuse; or are you simply determined to see only what fits your ideological beliefs about, as usual, **the great US “race” obsession?** Not about rap music but, Collecting and publishing data on crime rates, poverty rates, education, household incomes, populations based on ethnicity / supposed race is actual indicative of the great US “race” obsession. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/133 "2013-09-30T17:49:33Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > [For the edification of the rest of you](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTCJ5hedcVA&feature=related), I present people freezing their balls off, and not catching fish. While singing in an extremely annoying manner. What, do they eat each other?? They sure as shit ain’t catching fish. > > You’re welcome. Some day, a guy from Tuva is going to start a black metal band, and it’s going to be fucking epic. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/134 "2013-09-30T17:56:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Me, I like all music except, I’m ashamed to admit, Tuvan throat singing. That shit’s just awful. I wouldn’t spend all day listening to it, but I think it’s pretty cool. I liked that _Genghis Blues_ documentary and I saw a short live set from a Tuvan group once. I have one of their albums on my iPod. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/135 "2013-09-30T18:16:43Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I wouldn’t spend all day listening to it, but I think it’s pretty cool. I liked that _Genghis Blues_ documentary and I saw a short live set from a Tuvan group once. I have one of their albums on my iPod. Yeah, I was being flip earlier. In truth I find it both fascinating and intolerable. I mean, I’m delighted that there are people out there who can do that thing with their body, and I’m even more delighted I don’t need to listen to it much. It reminds me in this respect of Kronos Quartet’s [Black Angel](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk8RWv2bNsw) in its fascinatingly terrible nature. So, “awful” isn’t fair, but it’s also fair to say I’m not gonna crank it up while cooking dinner. And if someone else adores it, I have no problem whatsoever with that. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/136 "2013-09-30T19:17:50Z")
The idea that not liking a particular genre implies that that person is racist is a racist idea itself. Sure, generally, rap and hip-hop tend to be associated with blacks, but so what? If someone doesn’t like salsa, does that make them racist against hispanics? Or if someone doesn’t like country, does that make them racist agaisnt whites? Music, like any art, is highly subjective. I think Stephen Wilson said it best, along the lines that 99% of any genre is forgettable, but 1% is essential, and I strongly agree with that sentiment. When I say I like a genre, it means I’m more likely to enjoy more of that 99% than someone who doesn’t, and if I say I don’t like a genre, it means may like very little or even none of the non-essential stuff. But even though I generally dislike rap, when I hear a good rap piece, I may not fall in love with it, but I can at least appreciate it. By the same token, even as huge metal fan, just because something is metal, it doesn’t mean I’m going to like it. And for people who say “I like all music”, it’s no different than someone saying “I like all food” or “I like all movies” or “I like all TV shows”. It’s a sign that either they’re trying to come across as artificially open-minded–which, oddly, generally seems okay with music, but not so much with other arts–or they’re just not interested or invested enough to really know what their tastes are. To me, even as a musician, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with not being as into music as perhaps you might think everyone else is, just be honest about it. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/137 "2013-09-30T20:28:42Z")
You have a right not to like any type of creative expression whatsoever. However, putting a gun to someone else who likes it is very bad. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/138 "2013-09-30T20:34:43Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > The idea that not liking a particular genre implies that that person is racist is a racist idea itself. This idea comes up a lot–“You’re calling me racist? Well, YOU’RE the racist for thinking that!”–and it’s never persuasive. Nobody, but nobody, but nobody has said that disliking rap makes you racist. What has been said is that when people go out of their way to mention their dislike for rap, or when they claim they uniquely dislike rap because rap is uniquely violent or whatever, it’s a pretty good indicator that the person is racist. Do you see the difference? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/139 "2013-09-30T22:15:48Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > And for people who say “I like all music”, it’s no different than someone saying “I like all food” or “I like all movies” or “I like all TV shows”. It’s a sign that either they’re trying to come across as artificially open-minded–which, oddly, generally seems okay with music, but not so much with other arts–or they’re just not interested or invested enough to really know what their tastes are. I disagree with that, especially when it comes to food. I may have strong opinions on it, but there ain’t nothing I won’t eat. ---
**Author:** ![Dervorin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Dervorin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dervorin)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789/140 "2013-10-01T11:07:21Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This idea comes up a lot–“You’re calling me racist? Well, YOU’RE the racist for thinking that!”–and it’s never persuasive. > > Nobody, but nobody, but nobody has said that disliking rap makes you racist. What has been said is that when people go out of their way to mention their dislike for rap, or when they claim they uniquely dislike rap because rap is uniquely violent or whatever, it’s a pretty good indicator that the person is racist. > > Do you see the difference? I do, but I also think it’s not the most convincing split. I can see how making a point of announcing that you hate rap - to everyone, repeatedly and without provocation or relevance to the subject at hand, can be a pretty good indicator that you’re trying to say something without being blatant about it. On the other hand, people are oblivious enough to the way in which their statements are interpreted that it’s possible they mean it literally. I suppose it’s a question of sincerity, which is very hard to judge in casual relationships. I hadn’t actually realised how seriously people might take this subject; as far as I’m concerned people are free to like or dislike anything without me enquiring too deeply into their motives. Perhaps that’s a bit naive, but I can’t summon up the energy to really find out what most people care deeply about. With my close friends, sure, but most acquaintances? Naah; they can go around spouting coded racism and I’m unlikely to care very much, or even notice, I suppose. For the record, if it matters, I’m Indian (of the dot variety) so I’ve come across a reasonable amount of outright racism in my years of living in London. Not oblivious to it, but it’s one of these things that seems too deeply entrenched in some people to eradicate through confrontation or argument. They just have to grow up in their own time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-not-liking-rap-make-you-racist/669789.md?page=8)